A 68' VARY hard starting 427. I have to pump the throttles 60 to 80 times before the engine will even try to hit (pump throttle 10 times, crank engine..., repeat sequence 6 to 10 times). Once the engine starts and warms up, it will run all day. I can turn it off for the day at anchor and it starts right back up with no hesitations. Let it sit for a couple of days, and I have to go back thought this long drown out process again. I am beginning to suspect a problem with the auto choke or the carb its self. This carb has been rebuilt twice in the last 5 years.
I had the similar problem with my 427's. Once they're running do you see black soot out of one or both exhaust dumps? I found by adjusting the auto choke setting the motors lit right up when cold. Make sure the choke plate is in the closed position when the motors cold and that its wide open when at running temp. You can adjust the position by loosening the (3)screws on the plastic cover plate and rotating it until you get the choke plate in the desired position. Hope this helps, it did for me.
Steve
'69 42' Commander
Bear Z Girl
Here's a photo of Tim(right) and yours truely (left) about to fire up Tim's beautifully prepared 427s.
Yeah, I guess you can say I'm goofy about a 427, especially one that starts like THIS.
I don't know what it is about a Carter AFB that causes the fuel to evaporate out of the bowl, or drain back, but this is the reason so many people have to pump the throttles to get fuel into the motors and get them running. It's a symptom of the Carter carb, and probably a signal they need rebuilding. I have long suspected the chokes on my setup, and have set they so they stay wide open, not wanting to risk a malfunction where the motor floods out when hot, or chokes itself while running. I view those as safety issues, especially if I have oncoming commercial traffic heading my way and I have to get myself (and passengers) out of the way. As noted, the motors fire instantly after sitting for a few hours, but if they sit for a few days, mine need pumping too.
I am tempted to slap a pair of new 1409 marine Edelbrock 600s on them abd be done with it, but I'll most likely do a rebuild.
If you do this, set the timing where Tim says to set it, and get a good hot spark via good wires and good timing, your motor should also fire up just like Tims. Not being there yet, I can't give the kind of advice he can!
We have a lot of good files on this subject, I'll look through them this eve and post some links.
Regards, Paul
This message has been edited by FEfinaticP on Jan 30, 2008 7:31 AM This message has been edited by FEfinaticP on Jan 29, 2008 4:19 PM This message has been edited by FEfinaticP on Jan 29, 2008 4:03 PM This message has been edited by FEfinaticP on Jan 29, 2008 4:00 PM
Thanks for all the information and links. I have studied each one very carefully and have gotten a lot of great information. Really opened my eyes about the cylinder wash down problem I may be incurring while pumping the throttles that much.
I will bring the engines up to the 70 degrees, and set the choke as described (little tension closed) and see if this helps.
I don't want to offend anyone by asking the obvious, but is there ANY chance that you have electric fuel pumps with oil pressure cut-off switches and that you are not cranking long enough to build pressure and turn on the switch. Each time you try to crank the engines you may be stopping just short of the point that the switches see pressure and turn "on" 10 pumps ought to be enough to get some life out of an engine with no choke at all.
My 427s run beautifully, but they don't start as well as they will in the future. I pump prime mine, they start okay, but not like Tim's or Matt's. Everything is set up properly except the carb. I have the electronic ignition, good wires, valves and timing are set properly, but the chokes are not operational. I suppose there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to be made to work as well as Tim and Matt, since they're shaming me with how well their boats run.
I set my chokes wide open for the reliability assurance reasons noted earlier, but again, there's no reason they cant be made to work as intended. I do still think the Carter AFB has an evaporation or drain-down issue with the fuel bowl, but that may just be my perception.
Well..........so much for working on the boat. It started snowing (BIG FLAKES) here in NE Oklahoma this morning early and hasn't stopped. Been shoveling show all day. I get it off the walks and it's back again before I can get finished. Suppose to do this all day, they are saying about 9 inches before tonight.
Will have to try again another day.
Shoudn't say this, but......, I sure was looking forward to a cruise this afternoon.
1) Automatic choke is not closing. However, #2 below should override it.
2) Weak accelerator pump in the carb. Every time you advance the throttle, it should shoot gas into the primary venturis
3) Ignition problem. If the voltage drops to about 8 volts when cranking, an electronic module won't work. Same with points wired incorrectly. When cranking, the coil should see full voltage, and when running should see reduced voltage thru ballast resistor or resistor wire.
We had a beautiful 73 degree day here in NE Oklahoma yesterday. So, I took advantage of it and visited the bowls of the boat to adjust the auto choke on the port engine. The gate was not all the way closed, so I adjusted with a slight tension at the closed position (nice snap close). Stepped up to the helm (thought........ Okay.... lets just see), pumped the throttle 2 times, set throttle about 1500 rpm, hit the starter, and the engine roared to life. Surrrrrrrprised!!!!!!, because it had been more then a week since it had been run.
So, jump over and made a small tweak to the Stbd. engine, it also came to life with only 2 pumps. I normally used the 10-5-10 on cold starts for the Stbd., and it has always been very consistent with that method.
Thanks for your help guys, I am going to enjoy my warm-ups a lot more now.
PS. I have been enjoying your forum very much. It has some GREAT information and support. I believe that it is probably the “Best” on the internet today for this kind of trouble shooting support.
Alan, thats great to hear good news like this. It is hard to help someone from afar with motor and tuning issues, because you really never know the capability of the mechanic or the real condition of the motor. Once in a while when it works, it feels good.
In the '60's we had a Trojan Seabreeze. My recollection was the big 3 were Chris Craft, Owens, and Trojan. Lotsa mahogany and mahogany plywood back then. Top of the line were all double planked. Middle class were the lapstrake hulls, with the plywood hulls being the entry level stuff. I think the Chris' were the top of the pile, but there were some fine Owens Concordes and big Trojans too. We kept those things afloat with some primitive bilge pumps and 6 volt batteries that you could switch to series (12v) and crank the poo out of those old flathead engines.
I'm sorry, but a SeaRay just doesn't rekindle fond memories.
Trojan built some VERY NICE BOATS. We had one in the mid 30 foot range at our harbor a few years ago, it was markedly different than a Chris, but the interior was just as good or better than any Chris I've been on. Trojan boats were built in "Pennsylvania Dutch" country (Amish, Mennonite) and the quality was very high.
The ownership of Trojan boats, however, said that "if God wanted us to build boats out of fiberglass, he would have given us fiberglass trees". While that was a catchy byline, it eventually drove the company into bankrupcy, because the time eventually arrived when fiberglass Commanders were hitting the marketplace, and people just lost interest in buying a high quality wood cruiser. Chris Craft assured the Commanders had tons of character, early models have lots of wood on the interior (a trick Chris Craft used VERY successfully to transition their customers from wood to fiberglass, and it sure worked on me when I bought my 1966 38 Express), and they were priced competitively.
Trojan had the build and finish quality, but they suffered from a lack of proactive management and a failure to recognize market trends. It's sad, because Trojan built some VERY NICE BOATS. Chris Craft dominated the marketplace when it came to volume, cost, performance, and overall value, but Trojan never took a back seat when it came to quality of construction.
Paul, I agree with your comments about Trojan boats. Virtually every one I have ever seen was a quality product. If they had worked as hard on their dealer network as they did the wood-working quality, they would still be in business today.
