Here is a thread three years old, that I exchanged with my buddy Theo, who lives in Germany, and who recently posted photos of his MEL rebuild project which I’m also including here for reference purposes. This gives some of the guys with MEL motors in their Chris Crafts an inside look into what the MEL is all about. It’s basically a very rugged chunk of iron, strong enough to launch a 6000 Lincoln Continental like a rocket. In marine trim, these motors could have easily survived 300-hp stages of tune, but the conservative wisdom of the day selected 275-hp. Even at that rating, the torque was as impressive in a boat as it was a Lincoln.
The MEL series of motors (stnding for Mercury, Edsel, Lincoln) was initiated the same time as the FE series (standing for Ford, Edsel) of which the latter includes the 352, 390, 406, and 427. The MEL was initially intended as a heavyweight, and the FE was eventually built up into a high RPM race contender. The MEL, however, is a heavier design, and is actually quite indestructible as a result of it's initial concept for being. Many are in service today, and with proper care, and perbaps a rebuild, they will probably wear out their owners long before their owners can wear them out.
Here are the emails from 2003, and the photos follow.
I'm pretty deep into antique and classic boating in the US and Canada, having been on an international board of directors (major boating organization) and having owned several classics in the past (now owning 3-1/2, the 1/2 is on the wall of the living room), with FE motors, Chevy, Hercules, and with a lot of info on the MEL.
The MEL was designed and introduced on the same timeline as the FE, but interestingly with a big corporation, not much was "similar". The MEL followed the Chevy 348 concept, with a flat "plank head", same as the revered 409 (normally thought of as a boat anchor in FE circles).
The MEL was intended to be a Lincoln hauler from the start. The FE started being a "medium size" V8 and eventually grew. The MEL was listed at 375 hp, and one of my Lincoln collector buddies said it was detuned in order to avoid torquing the bodies of the cars out of shape, which caused the doors to not want to close.
I've been working on MAJOR research for quite some time on the FE marine history, and of course, the MEL comes into this history in a big way. Chris Craft, here in the US, started a relationship with Chevrolet in 1958, I believe, and that was the year they started installing the 283 in their runabouts. This relationship still exists today. However, shortly thereafter, they established a relationship with Ford for the big MEL, I'll find the exact year and post it, going from memory now. Many MEL motors exist in large Chris Craft boats today, mostly wood cruisers, but many large fiberglass boats like the early model Commander 38' boats.
In 1964 the Commander was introduced. It originally came with a 327 which proved to be too small and the MEL was used for two years. In 1966 the FE 427 was used in the Commander, but that was a year full of labor unrest in the US and Chris Craft ended up going back to the MEL, and then to the Chrysler 413 and 426B, just to have enough motors to continue production. In 1966 the MEL stock was exhausted and I don't think that motor was used in CC boats thereafter due to switching over to the FE.
I interviewed a guy in the CC engine plant (he worked there when they were in operation) and he said the MEL was as good a motor as the 427 was, with regards to service, call backs, etc., from a manufacturers point of view.
My guess is the MEL was a more costly motor to build, especially since it was on a production line for premium cars, and the FE was being produced in huge numbers, with cylinder heads by the thousands, etc. Have you ever heard a MEL in a big cruiser?????? I have, and I can tell you it's a sound that you'll remember. It has the DEEPEST growl I've heard in a boat, very throaty, and when running at cruising speed they just make you want to have another beer or martini, whichever you happen to be enjoying on the aft deck at the time. THe MEL marine motor was offered by Chris Craft in 275-hp trim, and the torque was monstrous, especially when multiplied with a 2.5:1 gear reduction, swinging 24" props, etc.
MEL motors are now in disfavor in boating circles due to "lack of information" and
”fear”. They are fine motors, but people are swayed by "repower" options, and machine shops who just don't seem to know about them, or care. It makes me wonder why people take their hard earned cash, spend tens of thousands of dollars for a repower, when a very reasonable rebuild is all they can possibly wear out in their lifetimes (and then spend the rest of their days rationalizing what they did, lol, to justify the dollars that were expended.)
When I hear of a MEL owner who is doing a rebuild, believe me, I always take the time to congratulate them, as they're doing something for themselves, the motor, and history too. After all, when all the MEL marine motors are gone, nobody will ever be able to hear that sound again, and that is a sad thing. Kids, especially, need to hear that sound. I remember growing up on a lake, and watching the big copper tail pipes of boats when they were fired up. The sounds are etched in my brain. That's one reason I gloss over when I go to a car or boat show, and someone fires up a motor. My wife says I don't listen to anything she says from that moment on, and I'm in a trance, ha ha, it's true.
Herb Hall, at Sierra Boat Works, recently had a beautiful wood Chris Craft 430 rebuilt and installed, and it sold for over $30,000. Without the original motor, it would have been as worthless as a Lincoln Continental with a motor from some other manufacturer. In some cases, like vintage speedboats and cars, having the original motor makes a huge difference on the value. With our Chris Craft cruisers, many think of their motors as throw-away consumables, but there are still a lot of us out there with original power (I'm running a 1966 boat with 427s manufactured in late 1965, still running ever so strong).
regards, hope you and yours are doing well,
P
Thanks, P for taking the time to post some history on marine MELs. My only recollection of MELs in boats were the v-drive flatbottom kind. A fellow I was good friends with had an old wood v-drive with a 430 Lincoln in it. He bought it from the insurance co as a total, the owner torched the boat to collect the insurance on it. The hull was burnt pretty bad around the engine, made it look like fuel leaking. Bill repaired the hull and replaced the carb, distriburer and everything else that was damaged in the fire. The boat was used for skiing and general fooling around type fun. The engine never gave him any trouble except where Bill messed with it, he was a better woodworker than a mechanic. I also remember a few race boats running the MEL [383s and 430s] and they were competitive against the FEs, Pontiacs, Chrysler Hemis [392s] and usually kicked Chevys butts as the 409 didn't make a good marine engine, they [W engines] didn't have the best lower end and could have oiling problems above 5500 rpms. The biggest drawback the the MEL as an engine for this type of boat was the weight, Gawd they were heavy, almost the weight of the 392 Hemi. They also fell out of favor because most machine shops had trouble boring the blocks. Most shops used deck mounted boring bars and you needed to use a angle plate to bore a MEL as well as the 348 and 409 Chevys. Those were the early days, now most shops bore and hone on machines that don't need the deck to locate the boring bar. I remember reading that FoMoCo would test run all 430s to check for smoothness, power and leaks before they were installed in Lincolns [only] starting about 1961 but discontinued this after a couple of years as it was too costly for a production vehicle.
RJP
60 Starliner-- 61 Starliner-- 66 Galaxie-- 67 Fairlane GTA-- 66 Fairlane GTA-- 69 Ford F250 and 3 Ford powered hot boats
Together w. RJP you would team up perfectly for this branch. I knew that I could count on you guys. I'm glad to see you too, among all these other great posters in this forum. Looks like we're having a solid foundation from the start.
I resemble your statement, that kids should have the chance to hear the roar of brute power engines such as the MEL, the FE and other FORD engines.
I moved into a national resort 6 years ago. I'm trying to learn and teach about what we see, hear and feel. But hell, lesson #1 for both kids was a proud ride on the back seat of my T-Bird only a couple of hours after they were given birth.
They loved to sleep away with that dual exhaust glass pack sound and still like it a lot. As for the trance thing, I'm glad not to be the only idiot that gets his kicks "LIKE THAT!" LOL.
I just came back from a 13 Km trip w. the canu. I live w. the water in front of my front porch.
BTW. you "boat people" might like this one. It is a all out wooden replica of a viking ship they found years ago in Norway. Now it serves as a ferry just half a mile away from the house. It has place for 16 active men plus four inactive. No cabin,...ouuuch!! I wonder how they manged it to make it over to your side of the Atlantic. P. thank you very much for your support.
Lenght is 15 m
width.....3,10 m
bar height...10 m
sailing cloth 40 square m
Best of all 15 hp outboarder hidden in a case and just 0,7 m depht in the water.
Here’s what Theo started with. It’s enough to make a frightened Chris Craft owner call Crusader, but is it really necessary?
The MEL block (Mercury, Edsel, Lincoln) is heavy, reinforced, and strong enough to last several lifetimes. It has enough meat to withstand many rebuilds.
The bottom end is more “truck like” than race-car. Everything is very heavy and built to last. This same design was used in the biggest gas Ford engine of the era, the 534 truck motor.
Theo thinks the cylinder heads use the same rockers that the FE series uses, and if so, it’s one of very few parts that are able to be interchanged with that series.
Like everything else about the premium Lincoln motor, no iron was spared on any part, including the cylinder heads.
Some people may have heard me refer to the MEL cylinder head as a “plank head” design. Here’s why. Notice the absence of a combustion chamber. The top of the MEL cylinder bore is cut off at an angle, and combustion therefore occurs in the top of the cylinder bore, rather than the cylinder head.
Even in Germany, far away from American suppliers and machine shops, the MEL is a known entity, and takes it’s place next to other exotic machinery. My comparison, this motor is more “tractor like” than high performance European. It is not a complicated device, and it was built for massive torque, something the Europeans never seemed to be able to justify on their continent.
In many cases, old iron simply doesn’t know it’s old. These blocks are so heavy, corrosion is not normally an issue.
Thanks Theo for sharing the photos, there are still many big MEL Chris Crafts out there. People have the option, by doing a simple rebuild like this, they will be able to reuse all of their ancillary equipment, transmissions, etc., potentially saving more money on a repower than I actually paid for my 38 Commander.
I'm surprised parts were available for the rebuild in Germany. Wonder if he had any difficulties finding gaskets, etc. over there. I saw a pair of those being rebuilt in Rochester not long ago, and they were BIG.
Well, we have access to everything in Europe, but......
April 14 2006, 11:27 AM
.....some parts take longer to ship from the U.S. if the local speciality store doesn't stock what you need. In general most speed shops don't even know of the MEL's existence, even don't know their own parts on the shelf as they lay there under the dust since many years. I used to order a lot of parts from the common warehouses in the U.S which worked 90% fine. Paying shipping, taxes and customs is a bitter pill and usually doubles the advertised catalog prize in the end.
I think it's not too different from what you MEL or FE people are facing in the U.S except for the prizes. We all have learned how to educate the sales reps and also how to ask the right questions just to double check if they got it all right on the phone .
Like P. said, like the FE, the MEL is a heavy piece of history. It is virtually indestructable w. enough meat for several overhauls. The MEL postet above was technically in an extremely good condition. S.th. you wouldn't expect from how rotten it looked like when it came in.
Only thing to really take special care is the cooling system w. those two little extra thermostats. In most cases you need to serve those channels w. extra replacement sleeves. In the MEL forum some guys have reported having made good experience w/o the extra thermostats.
You're welcome to visit us and ask your MEL engine questions at http://www.network54.com/Forum/257364/
Things go slow there but w. a little patience and frequent visits you will get served w. 100% reliable info.
BTW Paul, excellent work. You have put a lot of effort in this forum and it shows.
Right on
I’ve been looking through lots of information about the Lincoln motor, and the more I see, the more I like. Looks like the Roamer used the Lincoln 430/431 too.
Here’s a dusty photo showing the big block Lincoln motors as installed in a cruiser (sitting on pallets). The MEL was the first big block V8 offered in the Commander series, and it was a premium motor of the day.
The MEL was NOT a cheap motor to manufacture. At one time they ran each motor for 10 hours on a test stand to assure quality control. The initial run of 1958 motors apparently had “first year flaws” which were very quickly fixed by Ford. The engine went on to haul heavy loads quietly and reliably, and some even ended up in Chris Craft boats. When I interviewed a Chris Craft insider a few years ago, he said the 430 “was as good as any other motor Chris Craft used” speaking about reliability and call backs. I thought he would say some negative things about it, but all he had was praise. All motors wear out and eventually need rebuilding, but it’s often the small ancillary issues like alternators and water pumps, points, condensers, coils, and carbs, that make a motor appear to be unreliable run poorly.
At the time this ad was released, they were billing the 430 as “Americas largest V8” (they later increased the displacement to 462 cubic inches to maintain the claim).
This message has been edited by FEfinaticP on Apr 18, 2006 2:13 PM
...these motors. If there was ever an all time American classic then the Lincoln is it. These perfect lines are understatement and timeless. For many years it was my favourite car since I was 5 years old. The early windshields and the head lights bevels are identical w. those of the 62-63 T-Bird.
these cars sold for about 1-3k in the Bay Area in 1991.
A Buddy of mine has a later model (69 I think??) . It has a whopping 462 but the car is totally different. The class and elegance has gone one those later cars.
Anyway, cool pics Paul.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge about the 430 Lincoln motor, by the way, it fills a big void. There isn't much published about that particular motor. They didn't build many, by comparison, and there don't appear to be very many left. Looking at the photos, it looks like it belongs in a tank!
.......and longing for a boat. There was a period in time when I had more interest in boats than in cars. But I'm no rich son, so a boat will almost be unreachable for me. I live in a national water resort area. Here you can't go fast anyway. Reason is their environment program to protect the various water animals. The water cops are very strikt. Once I was busted by two patrol boats for burning up a huge pile of leaves and branches on my property, He he......
Some other officials even put tags on some of my trees near the water side. Ouups, sorry for my ramble.
Yes a boat is it! Some guy I know has a big ol' yacht. It once belonged to the American town major of the U.S. Army in Berlin. According to him the boat used to be the fastest vessel around. He says that it is propelled by two big V8 and that this was the reason for having serious difficulties to sell it. I've never been too close to him to take a look at his boat, so I can't say nothing about it.
Yeah, gas prizes are incredible in Germany.
I checked the thread w. the German guys and their CC 42. What a project! Nice pics. Thanx for the pointer
Best
theo
I have a different perspective on my Lincolns after reading this
April 15 2006, 6:10 AM
Very nice work Theo! It shows a huge pride in workmanship. My Lincolns are still running well after 42 years, and after seeing Theo's photos I realize how tough the basic motor really is. Seeing the block on the bench like that shows a lot. I've never seen any photos of a Lincoln rebuild, so I was very interested in seeing what they looked like inside, etc. Thanks for the info and the links.
As you may recall, I posted some comments about changing these motors out, but now I may seek out a qualified shop and have then freshened up for another 40 years? By then gasoline will probably be a thing of the past anyway. The comment about potentially spending more on a repower job than you spent on your boat sort of rang home too. In any case, it was one of the most interesting posts I've seen in a while, since I am running these motors in my boat now.
Also, if you haven't been there yet, check out a few shots and comments that I made during the overhaul process. Just klick on the upper right engine pic in the Mel Engine Forum at http://www.network54.com/Forum/257364/
BTW, thanks for the good words on my MEL work
Good luck w. your Boat and let the (beers) bears growl.
Regards
Theo
I noticed a Lincoln 430 for sale at $75 on your forum
April 16 2006, 11:14 AM
Theo, I looked through your forum, very nice and an unexpected wealth of information on the Lincoln motors. This just proves you can find anything on the internet! I saw a reference to a 430 in Pennsylvania being sold, and the price was $75. At that cost, the motor would provide a lot of essential parts like the block (which would probably never wear out anyway) for boaters who had reservations about running an old engine like that.
Since there are still many people out there running the indestructible Hercules flathead industrial motors, I don't really see any reason why the big Lincoln wouldn't also last forever. It would be fun to get an old motor like that and build it up for use in a speedboat. I've looked thorugh the photos here on the forum (pauls Mt dora pictures) and after seeing some of those Cadillac motors, it would be double fun to have a Lincoln.
.....yeah indeed, the Caddilac engine looks great. To me it does make a difference wether or not the boat goes w. the matching original engine. It really gives the whole picture a special touch. You can be sure not only to get the attention but also the respect of the knowlegeable AND the amateurs.
It's not that I'm saying anything else w. non matching engines or newer replacement packs is less interesting. It's just my personal preference. There are probably a lot of cases where the usage of an other engine makes perfect sense. That's O.K too.
As for the referenced engine on the forum I haven't taken a look on it, so I can't say anything about it. But as you say, these engines can be bought blind. If you can't rebuild it for some reason, there will always be some parts that you can make usage of. Rebuilding an engine doesn't really represent a big challenge IMO. If you know the basics or having read the right books you can do it easily w. the assistance of a knowlegeable machinist.
Computer programs are tougher .
Theo
I listened to the first one and it's a classic, where the heck did you find that? Both Johnny and June Cash are gone now, but I remember seeing their home on Old Hickory Lake, near Nashville when they were both alive. The living room was built on a bedrock shelf that overlooks the lake, and they just used the exposed rock for the floor. It is a very cool and expensive house, with a fantastic view of the lake. He was very well respected in Nashville, kind of an "elder statesman" if you will. Never heard if he was into boating or not.
of JC. I'm not sure if he was in boating too, but sure was into s.o. stuff, It shows in a few other clips. I've seen "Walk The Line", which I found was an interesting film. The actors had learned to play and sing, so that's a brilliant achievement despite of anything else in the movie. May the man rst in peace.
As a proud owner of a Martin Guitar I chat in the http://www.umgf.com once in a while. It's a very big and friendlxy community. There you find the buddy next door as well as prof. musicians of all kind and age. There are a lot of interesting stories to enjoy.
I hope to visit your home town one day. You're in a nice spot Paul.
BTW. There is this B&W CCC pic in your gallery that I think is a very impressive and outstanding photo.
Here's the thread where s.o. posted the link. http://p082.ezboard.com/ftheunofficialmartinguitarforumfrm12.showMessage?topicID=4494.topic
.......yeah, that's true. Even w. DSL I had problems w. one of the clips. I can't remember which one it was. There are a few other interesting clips where he plays together w. Pete Seeger and June Carter. I assume that the line is just crowded.
Best
Theo
Wonder why they didn't just use a cap on one of the valve covers for that? Strange. Also, looking at the block, it just looks heavy. That motor series really had no motivation to be light in weight, it was in a Lincoln and gas was cheap at the time.
I suspect a rebuilt 430 would be as reliable as a new motor if all the ancillary equipment was replaced. People have a tendency to re-use alternators, water pumps, carbs, etc., because they're still good, but it's the ancillary equipment that causes a motor to be unreliable most of the time. With the Pertronix upgrade, new electrics and carb, I'd think one of these would run a long time.
Thanks Theo, for sharing this info with us. Driving a Lincoln or T-Bird around Germany must be a lot of fun.
......was usually just an exit tube leading down to the ground. The 430 had a vent duct which was right beneith bell housing flange. It was covered w. a metal sheet to seperate the fumes from the rest. Quite primitive but it worked to some extend.
I think it was in the late 60ies or early seventies when they introduced the so called positive crank case ventilation. Air was drawn out of the case by a hose that came out from an intake man. source. The hose draw from a "PCV" valve that stuck in one of the valve covers.
To give it a circulation, fresh air had to be drawn unto the case. The fresh and clean air was ducted from the base of the air filter housing (clean air side) right into a connection in the other valve cover. That worked a lot better and not only helped the environment but also helped making the engine's idle more consistent. That probably never came w. the 430 but w. the later engines.
BTW the MEL came w. a generator, not an alternator. These are very weak companions and do not charge during idle. In many instances the opposite is the case.
Driving these cars is a lot of fun everywhere. I had the most fun when I bought the T-Bird in the U.S. Gas was cheap (1991) and my trips in CA and all the way down to LA on 101 was a LOT of fun.
My car is now in the garage as some elder Lady hit my driver door and I'm just to broke and having no time to get it all fixed. Gas is up to 1,40 Euros per liter, so you get the rest of the story.
My house is at the waterside. I think I'd be more interested in a boat these days. Oh well some day.
The boat is not mine. It belongs to my neighbour's buddy. It stays in the water even during the winter season. It uses some device that whirls the water from freezing.
Theo
A friend of mine referenced me to this site and I am knocked out to find someone out there who appreciates the big Lincoln marine motors. They are rugged pieces of iron left over from the industrial age!
I have run the Lincolns in my Roamer for 15 years, maintained the oil, changed filters, and basically put gas in the tanks. They are a little fuelish, but I have not detected any lack of performance during the 15 years we have run these motors. My family has had untold hours of fun with the boat and I challenge anyone including the 427 owners to find a motor built by any company that is more durable and reliable than these.
I have not experienced any problems that someone would not have with any other marine motor. There is actually a pretty nice stock of replacement risers and manifolds out there from people who have prematurely sold off their motors. There are also a listing of parts suppliers out there who service these motors and have impellers, pumps, alternators, and exhaust components available if needed. With reasonable care and running, they will last more than one lifetime.
Congratulations for being able to maintain heavy iron without sweaty palms and a nervous twitch! lol I contend many people have pulled these engines simply because they are old, as they have done with the 427 engines as well.
These motors have more iron and are heavier built than the industrial Hercules, and we all know how many times those can be rebuilt. Compression, valves, and bearings are all you have to watch for. If those items are able to produce good oil pressure and clean running, you probably have lots of time (and cash) left to enjoy them.
Water pumps, impellers, carb problems, poor timing, ignition problems, have all caused people to think the motors are worn out.
A year ago I had a ride on a boat powered by the big Lincolns. At the time it smelled of gasoline because it was so poorly tuned. Looking under the hatch, we saw wires that should have been replaced 20 years ago, the carbs obviously were crapped out, and the motors were begging for a Pertronix conversion, and the decision was already made to repower. There had not been much of any attention given to the motors. The owner spent a wad of cash and a boating season trying to adapt new engines to burn equal or more gas at the same cruising speeds they will likely be using.
My 427 starboard engine had NO COMPRESSION AT ALL in one cylinder when I bought the boat. NONE, not even 5-pounds. I went over the motors carefully, took the time to get things in order, and found the valves were way off the setting. Upon giving them a proper set, guess what? Compression in the offending cylinder came up to spec, and believe it or not I've been running the motors like a bandit for TEN YEARS. I could have easily gone for a repower at that point.
Since I've been a member of the ACBS for 22 years, and was a wood boat nut long before that, I appreciate the durability and viability of old iron. Thankfully, some of the V-12 Liberty powered Gar Wood boats and OX powered Chris Crafts (Al Shinnerer's Arrowhead) I've ridden in on Lake Tahoe, Lake George, and Lake Geneva didn't have owners who tossed those motors. It's surprising how well they run too. I've seen thousands of really exotic motors in old boats over the years, and the Lincoln is hardly exotic. It's about as simple and strong as it gets. If you ever have any issues, you should contact Theo, my buddy in Germany who did the rebuild and sent in the photos.
As for your Lincoln Continental motors, they were some of the finest on the roads of America, a luxury car motor, and very expensive to build. One of the reasons they changed over to the 427 was for lower cost. Yes, the 427 is rated at more power, but the MEL could have easily been rated at the same power ratings, having been offered to the general public in automotive form at 375 and 400-hp options.
If I had a sweet running pair of Lincolns, I'd be crowing about them. Since I have 427s, I crow about them.
Many people think the small block Chevy motor was the modern V8 that set the standard for the American automotive industry, but no, it was really a Lincoln motor. Ford produced a 1952 Y-block (where the sides of the block casting extend down below the centerline of the crankshaft, to add strength to the motor) of 317 cubic inch displacement, 7.5:1 compression and 160-hp at 3900 rpm. By 1957 this motor was 368 cubic inches, 10.1:1 compression and 300-hp. The early Lincolns swept the Pan American road race across Mexico and would pull 130-mph with 3.31 gearing!
In 1958 Ford brought out two new motor designs, the FE series from which the 427 eventually evolved, and the new 383 cubic inch MEL (Mercury Edsel Lincoln) which eventually grew to 430 cubic inches .
The big new Lincoln featured combustion chambers in the block. The block faces were milled off at an angle so there was a wedge shaped chamber between the roof top piston and the flat surface of the head. The design gave excellent combustion control, and breathing through the valves was improved because there was no chamber wall around the valve edge to shroud the opening.
According to Roger Huntington, S.A.E, in an article he published in 1962: "This is probablky the smoothest, quietest and most reliable engine in the industry today." No wonder Chris Craft, took note of this big bore V8 for their premium Continental and eventually in the twin engine Commander introduced in 1964.
The big Lincolns seem to have a bad rap from boaters these days, but it is only because of their age and the fact that many of them are now needing mechanical attention. However, there are many that are still in good running condition, and there are some on the vintage boat circuit that are just spectacular examples of what FoMoCo thought was the ideal world standard luxury car motor.
In 1959 Holman Moody of NASCAR racing fame, prepared a racing version of the Thunderbird. As a matter of fact, they built seven of these bombs, all with the big Lincoln motors. All seven showed up at Daytona for a 500 mile race, ran at speeds of 140-mph, and finished in a dead heat with an Oldsmobile, which took photo analysis to determine the latter car won. That proved the big Lincoln could run with the best machinery available, and it helped catapult Holman Moody to even higher accomplishments in subsequent years with the FE series engine developments.
The main problem with the big Lincoln was cost. It was also heavy. So we have a heavy expensive engine being adapted for marine use, and time has proven that these motors can last almost forever. In addition, there is SO MUCH IRON there, they can be rebuilt numerous times. Just look what Theo has done in his shop in Germany, and if he can do it over seas, then this same thing should be more easily done here in the US where there are lots of these engines still around and lots of parts.
Anyone out there still running one of these motors (as in the case of Dave Mehl with two of them) should have a pat on the back, because they're quite rare these days. Having a fresh pair in a Commander would be very cool, and if you don't think they perform well, then just take a peek at this! http://www.network54.com/Forum/424840/message/1173461961
Look at that cover photo, and then look at the speeds obtained with the lowly stressed 275-hp version. That kind of combo is pretty much in the indestructible range.
As I've contended many times in the past, with a little cash and the willingness to do it right, old iron like the Lincoln 430 and 431 can be rebuilt many times and perform "as new".
We featured one such rebuild from my buddy in Germany, but here is a beautiful rebuilt in show condition inside and out. If you think the rebuild is too much to pay for, you can buy this one complete with all marine hardware and transmission for $7500. Therefore, if you already have one needing attention, the cost would naturally be far less than this to freshen one or a pair of them up. The Lincolns, by the way, are heavy iron, and able to be bored out with less concern than the thin-wall 427s.
More photos and data in the next post...............
Rebuilt and blueprinted by David Van Ness of Van Ness Engineering in New Jersey. Zero time since completion, never installed. All correct components, restored to show condition. Please call 212.724.2566 for more info. or pictures.
Condition : 10/10
Location: United States NY 10023
Price: $ 7500 USD
Beautiful job, David. Anyone with a pair of Lincolns would do well to give you a call.
In case you missed this Lincoln-powered 38 Commander in-the-water speed run !!!!
October 2 2007, 10:38 AM
In case you may have missed the link hidden in some of the text earlier in this long thread about Lincoln power, here is a repeat of a thread we feature elsewhere on The Forum. At the time this article was printed, Hatteras and Chris Craft were both using the premium Lincoln power as their choice of big blocks. The Lincolns were heavy and expensive, and to many they were considered "the finest running engines of their time".
Originally posted on the Chris Craft Commander Forum, Inc
March 9 2007 at 11:39 AM
As many readers of the Chris Craft Commander Forum, Inc., know, the fiberglass Chris Craft Commander line was launched at the 1964 New York Boat Show, when the very first public glimpse of the new 38' Commander was unvieled. It was designed, constructed, and shipped in secret. The unveiling of this boat sent a shock wave thorough the boating industry and the reverberations are still being felt 43 years later.
The new boat had all of the coolest styling ques of the era, partically from Detroit, partially from Chris Craft historical precedance, and it was a looker. It was also a performer too, with the top power option of the day being the 430 big block Lincolns (as tested in this report) with lots of torque and a horsepower rating of 275.
The cover photo of this great water-test article, shows a Lincoln-powered 38 Commander being driven at full speed into a cresting wave. What a PHOTO, and what fun that must have been to be on board or on the photo boat!!!
This article represents one of the first, or perhaps "the" first published impression of the new fiberglass Chris Craft muscle-cruiser that resurrected the Commander name.
In all reality, a chunk of iron found out in a pasture that says "Lincoln" on it, is still probably able to be rebuilt if it has not frozen.
Yes, there are guys out there who will junk the finest running engine of the era because they still have an original frayed spark plug wire, if the paint doesn't look new, or if they have some ancillary equipment needing to be replaced. Some of these guys will turn right around and spend tens of thousands of dollars repowering (and the rest of their lives telling everyone how great the new engines are, or rationalizing their actions), lol . We all probably know someone like this, either now or in our past.
Some of the motors have actually been destructed, scored cylinder walls, broken rods sticking through blocks, whatever. Most of them are still able to run almost forever, given a little cash, desire, and an owner with a little nerve.
In all reality -->reality check please<-- many of these old engines are ridiculous NOT to rebuild, in the era of the "new recycle sensitivity". Why discard something that is still able to run for half a century more?
Here's a rebuilt Lincoln. Nice, huh? Yes, and it will probably run for another 40 years before it needs another coat of paint, rings, or bearings.
Now here's one that was literally, found in a cow pasture. Would you rebuild this one? Most of us would say no. Many of us would be reluctant to rebuild one in MUCH better shape that was in a boat. However, this is an example of what can be done, with a little desire.
It looks pretty bad in these photos. What lots of people don't seem to ralize, most of the value is still there. The Lincoln has so much iron, it can be rebored for new pistons if it needs it. If the crankshaft isn't scored, all it needs is a light polishing and it can be put back in service with new bearings, etc. Parts are available. The trick is finding someone like David Van Ness of Van Ness Engineering in New Jersey, who knows what he is doing. David did the engine rebuild at the top of the page, I guess he knows what he is doing!
More photos in next posting........................
regards,
Paul
This message has been edited by FEfinaticP on Oct 2, 2007 3:31 PM
Worn out, not able to be rebuilt? Nope, just because it has dirt on it, doesn't mean it can't be rebuilt. Since most of our marine engines are in much better shape that this one, and many are still even running when they are hauled out, it really makes a lot of sense to recycle them with new pistons, rings, and bearings. Add a cam, timing chain, and cylinder head job, in essence you have a new motor. Oh yes, don't forget the paint !!
More photos in next post...............................
Lincoln REBUILD ------------------------ PHASE - III
October 2 2007, 2:38 PM
A new performance intake manifold !! It may not be well known, but these engines were able to deliver 400-hp in stock tune, before Lincoln decided to detune them (because all the torque was causing the frame to flex, and the doors wouldn't shut, ha ha)
The photos below show the motor in it's final stages, actually having been test run.
The purpose of this post isn't to make fun of anyone who repowered their boat. The purpose it to stress the fact that some motor types are very rebuildable, and just because they're burning oil, look dirty, making noise, etc., does not mean they can't be made to perform beautifully again.
thats no lincoln block... its not y block which extends down past crank center line...
those are not lincoln valve covers
I think mabey lincoln motor better than most of us realize......
So I'm reading this, and look at the pictures. First, the engine pictured has a PCV valve..that showed up in the '60's. Also has a GM style power steering pump. Again, '60's. The Tell is the EGR valve. That's '70's stuff. I'm not a big block ford expert, but that sure looks like a regular 460 Ford to me. Finally, that is Ford corporate blue paint, which is a Newer color.
From memory, the 430 Lincoln engine in my dads '58 Continental was alot different than that engine.
That engine is the rebuild photos is a 385 series motor (429/460). It was originally from a Lincoln. You can tell by looking at the C6 it was mated to. Those tall ribs on top are only on Lincoln C6's, and if you could see the trans mount it would not be a standard flat mount, but an odd V shaped mount used only on Lincolns. Also if you could read the head casting numbers I can almost be certain they would read D3VE (1973 Lincoln Engine), though all 385 series head were marked xxVE (xx being the year of casting design, V being Lincoln, E being Engine).
These engines are cheap power, much cheaper than FE based power (though the more modern design lacks the nostalgia and racing history of the FE). Also 385 based engines can be cheaply and easily stroked to 545 cubic inches, making some serious power and torque.
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. We all probably know someone like this, either now or in our past. 
