Received a call last night from a guy out of Brockton Mass. Found my name via an internet Google search under 45 Chris Craft Commander. Apparently, a recent post on this forum googled up and he found my number. Anyway, he is having difficulty keeping his engines running and thinks it has to do with his Firequench system. He asked if I had the wiring diagrams. I do, in fact most of the construction detail were on the boat when I got her. Going to copy them and send them to the guy, partly because I would do anything in my power to help out a fellow Chris'r, but also, I feel real sorry for him being stigmatized by the competentness of his two US Senators. (humor)
Regardless, anyone needing wiring diagrams for the 42 and 45 Commander, I have them. These vessels were formerly known as the Tournement and/or Sportfisher.
email them to me if you want, and I'll put them in the MASTER INDEX for the next guy to find. Post them directly here if you want, and if they're too big I'll compress them. As for the "pair", must be something in the water up there?
Hi Paul, I imagine you already have the wiring diagram for the 38' commander, but if for some reason you don't, I could mail you a copy that you could scan.
We are getting to a stage on our rebuild/refurbishment where we will soon start tracing wires to the flybridge and other places, and comparing what we find to the factory wiring diaphram. Just the other day we were trying to sort out the mass of wiring wadded up under the enclosed area on the flybridge.
One excellent thing -- we reconnected all the loose wires from our remote-control spot-light yesterday, and the thing works!!!!! The control was so encrusted with green fuzz and rust that I am frankly amazed.
We just wired up a couple of stereo radios (on at both helm stations), and a Garmin GSP depthfinder/plotter, and some other things -- it feels good to get some of the electrical things working!
We also redid our fuel system including huge new Carter electric marine rotary-vane fuel pumps. I added a 'fuel pump priming switch' (a momentary-on -- off -- momentary on manual switch) which we can flick either way to manually run each fuel pump, which primes our carbs after the boat has been sitting. After priming the system, our engines start with one pump of the throttle lever even after sitting for extended periods. Without the priming switch, our fuel pumps only run while the starter motor is engaged or 2) when the engine is running and the oil pressure is up.
Best wishes, Curt...
----
1967 fiberglass 38' Chris Craft Commander Sportfisher with twin 427 CID 300 HP engines.
Terry could use your help with his 10" flame thrower
May 12 2006, 5:03 AM
He got an estimate of something like $1800 to refurbish the light. Perhaps it just needs a little TLC? The drive mechanism for those things isn't too much different than the motors on a rear view mirror. They should last a long time if they're built for the marine environment with marine wire, etc.
Believe it or not, I don't have a 38 wiring diagram and could use one. If you can scan one and email it, that would be great, or just post it so others can see it too. No need to use the snail mail.
Sounds like you have the fuel pump issue pretty well resolved. I hope you guys are able to get some quality time running your boat this year. You've done more restoration work in less time than anyone else I know, so you guys really are to be congratulated. Everyone appreciates the thoughtful write-ups and great photos you've shared too.
I'm going to be doing the underwater gear thing, and painting the hull in a few weeks. Props are on order, shafts have been paid for, strut bearings are in hand, and not sure at this time if I'm going with Drivesavers or not. I'll be installing a new depth finder of some sort, haven't decided which is best for my water here in Tennessee.
Hi Paul, the electrical drawing we have is large, and my scanner small. I'll talk to co-owner Jim to see if he has a machine at work that can scan it, but I don't beleive he does (they do have a large format copier however). Email me a mailing address and I will see what I can get for you.
I also have a digital copy of the electrical diagram for a Kohler 6.5 KW gen-set. One was glued to the inside of the sheet metal cover for the generator, and I photographed it -- not great, but not bad either. I have posted 2 copies at the address below (one as photographed, and one after some digital cleanup):
[I didn't display them in this post because they are big enough to mess the text display up.]
Thanks for the kind words about our restoration efforts. At times the work has been frustrating, and at other times quite satisfying.
You mentioned a new depth finder. Our new Garmin 198C GPS color plotter/depth sounder is sure nice -- we installed a high quality bronze transducer last summer when we did the hull inspection and bottom paint work, but we just installed the head unit at the lower helm station this past week. We are VERY pleased with how good the Garmin charts are for the Willamette and Columbia Rivers -- every bridge and bouy are shown, and even the dock we moor at. Soundings are shown on the display. There is a lot of flexibility for what information you can display on the split screen -- we have depth, time of day, speed, and a compass shown. Anyway, the chart is so good you could almost drive the boat blind with this thing (as long as other boats stayed out of the way):
For the flybridge, we have a little Hummingbird 2" digital depth finder. I plan to stick the transducer to the inside of the hull with some epoxy (it should transmit through the fiberglass OK). Before sticking it in epoxy, I will stick it in a blob of grease for testing. I would have mounted it thru-hull if I had it when we pulled the boat, but I didn't.
Best of luck with your coming upgrades -- we will all be looking forward to hearing how the new props perform.
I'am Sonja from Spain - from LEGENDE CCC 41 look here > www.legende.es
The shortest way, for you, to receive the copies of my wiring diagrams will be -> you must ask Rick from www.chriscorp.com in USA (also member in this forum)he received all our copies two years ago.
I think you receive them earlier on this postway I am shure it is a "little" shorter..haha
If that is not posible, you can ask me an other one - and we will help you than!
Best regards from Spain,
Sonja and Oliver
Best & sunny wishes from SPAIN - Peņiscola at the Orange-Blossom-Coast
from SONIA & OLIVER
"Legende" CCC41 Flybridge (1979)
www.legende.es
I have removed the breaker panel and dash board from my 1980 410 CCCommander. I am looking to sell them in order to recoupe some of the expenses for the new stuff. Anyone interested? Anyone have any ideas on where I can post my goods for sale?
This diagram actually was transported across the Atlantic by freighter, sent to Germany, then acquired by the Oelgarts, moved across the Baltic under 410 diesel power, put onto another freighter, shipped to Spain, then retrieved after spending time on the Mediterranean, sent to the US by electronic means, sent to me in PDF form, converted to an image, and posted here for use.
My Dad and I just acquired a 1969 Commander 38 Sedan Flybridge with some semi-scary wiring issues. I am in the process of re-building a Crusader 454 350 HP motor and changing it from L-H Rotation to R-H Rotation (The P-O PUT in a new port engine 30 hours ago and when we took ownership Starboard motor was seized solid with rust) All of that said, when we finish this project we will be addressing some wiring problems and could DEFINITELY use a wire diagram! Any help would be awesome! Thanks a million
John Scouler
Irish Lady
1969 Commander 38 Sedan
Hello John, a big WELCOME ABOARD to you and your dad, and congratulations for scoring one of the iconic 38s. It's a comfortable and fast hull I think you'll enjoy.
On the wiring, be sure to use tinned marine wire and not the hardware store or automotive stuff. The non marine wire will corrode inside the plastic insulation. We've owned our 38 for 13 years or more, and I've never seen a wiring diagram yet. As you can see here in this thread, Curt Hill has a wiring diagram for a 38 SF, and its probably similar to yours and my 38, but the SF has more in common with your sedan than my express.
Rebuilding the 454 sounds like an interesting task, do they have the cast in "wipers" on the crankshaft like the big block Ford FE, and the directional seals? Just curious if GM had a "better idea".
If I can get my hands on a wiring diagram I'll surely send it your way. In the meantime, hope you feel welcome and comfortable researching your project, and ejoying the technology offered here by the members of The Forum.
Paul,
Thanks so much for the warm welcome! I have been trading e-mails with some of the folks at the Commander Club and have found Commander owners to be quite a nice bunch! We basically lucked into the boat as it belonged to a friend of a friend of my brother who only wanted the storage owed on the boat in trade. Like I said We were unpleasantly surprised by the starboard 454, and had to free up a couple of valves on the port motor (the boat sat for a couple of years, 30 hours after a new port engine was installed) As for the starboard: After 1987 (I think) GM switched to a 2 piece rear main seal and the seal has the directional notches cut into it and the seal surface on the crank is smooth, making it both Left and Right rotational. However, like most non-inline engines the piston wrist pins are a bit off center to allow for thrust face and they have to be installed backwards (rotated 180 degrees on the rod) some guys put them in the normal way, but I'd imagine that leads to shorter engine life. By the way I am a Harley Davidson Tech by trade, and have been working on all things Internal Combustion all my life. I have been a Ford guy all my life too and was a bit bummed that the boat didn't have the 427's (although the 454's are lighter and much more maintenence free, 427 are just plain More BAD-ASS!)I also lived and worked on St. Thomas In the US Virgin Islands from 1990 to 2001( My brother's friend Knew of my history on Boats in the Caribbean and the PO heard about me through him, he thought we would make good owners, and we are now good friends which is almost the best part of the story!). Part of my time in The VI, I was partner in a small marine repair business. Of all of the boats I workeed on wildly expensive to dirt cheap, this commander hads to be in the top 5 as far as quality. The only things that came close were the top shelf sportfishing boats and some antique steel-hull motor yachts. (I was engineer on a 108 ft Burger that was built in 1957. Needless to say VERY high quality!) Anyway I am rambling about the past. Back to present day! All of the systems on the Commander (She is called Irish Lady, but in lieu of the way we got her we are changing the name to "Windfall") are tip top. The AC works great and so does the heat, Galley and head are tip top as well. I haven't tried to start the Genset yet (It is the original Kohler, and the PO said it ran great last time he started it. It still spins freely so I think it is OK. I knock on wood as I say this!) All electrical systems are great but some of the wire jobs are butt connected with Auto store wires, which is in line on the project list! All in all we really have gotten the best gift ever, and it has always been one of my Dad's dreams to have a boat, so all of the work is a lot of fun. knowing how happy he'll be on the day of her maiden voyage! I just got the engine back from the machine shop and finished assembling the bottom end a week ago. I basically built it to better-than Crusader standards (which are the highest in the business. As for switching from L-H to R-H: We found a Crusader 350 HP 454 on e bay and it was listed as R-H. The guy told is it "runs great" and it is fresh water cooled and came complete with all Fresh water gear (heat exchanger, oil coolers, raw water pump etc and was complete carb to pan. We got it for $800 and felt like thieves all the way home! (it was semi local 2 hours away. Anyway, got her home and realized it was L-H rotation AND in need of a rebuild BAD! Oh well, we still got our monies worth as it is a 4 bolt main motor and the block alone is worth the $800 we paid for everything!
If anyone ever needs info on going from L-H to R-H or vice versa, drop me a line! Anyway, Hope I wasn't too long winded, but when I start telling Irish Lady's story, I can't help it! I will send some pics as soon as I can figure out how! Thanks again!
We're very glad to have another guy on board here who can offer a perspective on the various aspects of this boating hobby (or addiction) of ours, based on this kind of great hands-on experience.
I'm really happy to see another father and son activity like this too, doesn't get much better.
Thanks Paul,
Believe it or not, one of my favorite parts of Commander involvement, is the camaraderie, and "cut above" nature of everyone I've met through Irish Lady so far! I have saved countless hours (Literally saved me from having to take the old starboard motor out, put a new motor in, take it out and put it in again!)IE: A gentleman on the Commander Club site informed me that if I re-indexed the direction of the input on my Velvet Drive pump, it wouldn't solve my problem of buying a L-H motor by mistake. I was SO sure it would work, we went back and forth with 6 or 7 e-mails and in each one he remained super patient. Not once did he "told you so" me either! That IS CLASS! I'll save you the boring(and embarrassing) details of why I thought that in the first place (suffice to say that a serious lack of reading comprehension, coupled with wishful thinking had LOTS to do with it!) He also saved me from rebuilding the used e-bay motor for L-H rotation. It would have been a seriously time consuming mistake. In other words, these forums and the people who read them are PRICELESS and I look forward to the day, I can share some info to help someone.
May I ask what part of the country you are in? We are in Southern NJ about 5 minutes outside of Philly, and keep the boat an hour away at the Jersey Shore.
About the wire Diagrams: Are you in contact with the gentleman that mentioned that he had a diagram for a 38 SF?
I am thinking about getting out my old drafting tools and making up a wire diagram and plumbing diagram for our boat.
The S-F diagram would be a GREAT jumping off point to draw up a new diagram, it probably wouldn't even need that many revisions, as I am sure they used the same wire colors on all of their boats. I would be happy to further revise anything I can put together for your Express. Thanks, in advance for any help you can lend me on this!
John Scouler
Yes indeed, John, the spirit of friendship and cooperation between Commander owners is a wonderful thing. Our mission here is clearly stated on the front page of the forum, "to have fun and share information", and we open our doors and hatches to you to join in with the fun.
You asked where we're located, Janet and I run our 38 Express on the Cumberland River near Nashville, Tennessee. We sure admire people like you and the guys up on the Great Lakes, and on the Pacific, and of course in the Gulf, who have those things called "waves" or sometimes you call em "swells"? If you search the files for a while you'll see hundreds of photos of our Commander on the Cumberland having fun. The most fun we've had with the boat, however, is the association with others at the big Commander Rendezvous, held last year at Huron, Ohio, on Lake Erie, and I have to tell you this event is worth flying half way across the country to attend (which we did on both accounts). You should schedule for 2009!
Here's a bit about Janet, me, and our TRADITION. Dick Avery didn't design the first 38, Messers Hudson and MacKerer did (Hudson designer under supervision of MacKerer)
http://www.network54.com/Forum/424840/message/1147979180
Boy, another newbie to the forum, Awesome! I would like to welcome you to Paul's fantastic forum also. Do I understand that you are a professional biker as well as Commander owner. That is close to home for me. My best days have been the ones riding my scooter to the boat and shoving off for a Commander ride! Running from the bridge on a beautiful day parallels a good motorcycle ride on many levels. Oh yea I too am getting ready to start a chevy motor rebuild, albeit a small block. We seem to have a few things in common!
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