This is a repost of a photo Ernie found a few days ago. This one is for sale at $350,000+ Not sure how many were built, but there were not many, that's for sure.
Here's one on the way to the water, perhaps the first one out of the plant. (55' Aluminum Roamer SF)
Chris Craft promotional photo, 55' Aluminum Roamer SF
This design, used in the 42, 45, 55, and some others, is one of "the" best looking sports cruisers ever penned, in my humble opinion. It has great proportions, the sensation of speed, great attention to detail, and all the shapes and forms seem to just be "right".
This sure is a MUCH better looking execution all the way around, than some of the new "plastic-fantastic-space-ship" designs that look like a jelly bean that has been sucked on for a while.
If you want to know how I really feel, send me an email, lol!
PHOTO OF THE DAY(Photo scan above, December 16, 2006)
Edit Comment: (We continue to learn more about the various models thanks to great postings like this thread by Bill Thomas. From time to time, based upon more knowledge and the ability to revisit great threads like this, we can go back and add information to supplement the threads. In this case, we're revisiting this aluminum TF thread, and here are the comments we added on Dec 15, 2006).
"We have explored the various family tree branches of the Chris Craft Commander model line, looking down the line toward the smaller versions. These include the 23 Commander, and the 19 Commander Super Sport / XK-19, and the other XK boat not many people know about, the XK-22. Weve looked at how Thompson Boat Company of New York was a part of the fiberglass revolution at Chris Craft, even before the fiberglass Commander was introduced. Chris Craft bought Thompson in 1962, picking up lots of fiberglass technology and obtaining a plant right in the boating wonderland of New York State, at Cortland. The factory was expanded to become the Corsair Division, which built the great Lancers, lots of Corsairs, some fiberglass Cavaliers, and the 20 glass Sea Skiff.
Now lets take a look at the other end of the Commander family tree, also a result of acquisition. Chris Craft acquired the Roamer plant many years earlier in order to get into the steel and aluminum boat building business. The Roamer was a good looking boat that Chris Craft made better. At the end of my 1966 38 Express serial number FXA 38 3004 R is the letter R, signifying the fiberglass icon was actually built utilizing some of that Thompson fiberglass technology in the Roamer plant. As you can see, Chris was on the move in the late 1950s and early 1960s, introducing the first fiberglass Commander in 1964!
Beginning in 1955, the Roamer Division steel hulls from 25 to 57, and some larger boats in aluminum that included the good looking 58 Riviera, 60 Flush Deck and Motor Yachts, and a series of stunning Motor Yachts ranging in 68, 70, 73 and 74. The boat pictured above is one of the smaller aluminum hulls, but it represents a big Commander. It is the very stylish 55 Tournament Fisherman of 1976, which obviously followed the smaller fiberglass Chris Craft Commander Tournament Fisherman lines almost to a T, especially since Dick Avery designed them both. Because of the obvious styling similarity, we call this one a Commander, but technically its a Roamer."
Paul,
forum moderator
This message has been edited by FEfinaticP on Dec 17, 2006 5:52 AM This message has been edited by FEfinaticP on Feb 6, 2006 6:04 PM This message has been edited by FEfinaticP on Feb 6, 2006 6:03 PM This message has been edited by FEfinaticP on Feb 6, 2006 6:01 PM This message has been edited by FEfinaticP on Feb 6, 2006 5:59 PM
Hi Bill, I had a bit of a wrestling match with the scans due to size, but I figured out how to reduce them a bit. Should make them easier to see on "full screen" older computers.
Do you have any idea how many of these "semi custom" 55s exist? This looks like a real "flagship" model, and I'm curious as to how many CC was able to produce.
According to The Essential Guide, three were built. I've read that elsewhere too. Over the last couple of years two have been for sale. One is for sale now in Charlestown, SC for $249,999 "bring all offers". This is a bargain and looks like a real nice boat, probably never fished.
That looks like a really well cared for "almost one of a kind". However, I don't want to spend $250K on a boat, it won't fit in my 50'slip and since I own the slip (private condo YC) I could still consider a 42 or 45 like yours. The 45 probably is just too big for what I'd really need or want, so I guess I'll be lurking and looking at the boat ads for a while just to see what's out there on the market. I love the 38 Express, but we'd like more room, and we're not ready to retire into a houseboat on a hull. The SF and TF models really have a sporty look. Great boats!
In addition, I realize people don't generally get their money out of a boat, but by buying good brands and keeping them in tip top shape, I do think it's a place where one can put some cash and get "most" of it out at some future date, providing the boat is in good condition and stays in good condition. Insurance, operating costs come in to play, naturally, but so does the lifestyle and fun factor!
Now you guys have me looking at new boats, and before I came to this forum I was happy with the one I have! ha ha, "boatitis" in it's advanced form, no doubt.
Those sketches are from Dick Avery. He gave them to the Commander Club a while back. There was some thought of selling them, but we thought nobody would ever see them again if that happened, so they were donated to the Mariners Museum for safe keeping. You may be able to get photos from the MM, not sure. The club took some photos, but I don't think they are of a resolution that will meet commercial bubble jet printing standards when enlarged, not sure, might need to try one.
At some point in time hopefully the club will issue those prints in a professionally done ink jet or bubble jet format, to get some donations and to help get these great images out into the public domain where they belong. They're too good to be kept under wraps.
Not only are the renderings, themselves, great works of art, but the actual designs those renderings actually illustrate, represent the really impressive 3-dimensional work.
The info is much appreciated. Perhaps I can do a little investigating now. No promises, but I'll post anything I find. There's just something very appealing about his designs. Reminds me a little of Ray Loewi. Sort of the same era too.
(if you can hear the audio, it's Raymond Lowey discussing his design for the Avanti)
Interesting that you would bring up Lowey's name when discussing Dick's work. They are of the same general era, yes, but Lowey is the predecessor by many years. I studied Lowey when I was in architecture school in 1970. He was a great industrial designer, and got a hand at many locomotives, air force 1, toasters, automobiles, telephones, just lots and lots of things we still associate with these days. Here is one of his greatdesigns I still admire today.
In 1961, Raymond Loewy designs
the Avanti for Studebaker.
"In the case of the Avanti, the off-center treatment of the hood was very important and innovative for 1961."
- Raymond Loewy -
As for Dick Avery, I actually prefer his sense of proportion and integration of form. The designs are just faultless. I get a little uncomfortable when I wonder what Lowey would have done to a Chris Craft, it might have looked like something futuristic from the movie Barbarella; where Avery's designs recognize every aspect of the classic boating forms and history of CC, and just do them better with modern materials.
A little known fact about Dick Avery....told to me in person one day on the docks. He was working for Ford Motor Company at the time, on a two seat sporty car. It was taken all the way thorugh the design process and they had an elaborate and stunning full size rendering done. All the brass was paraded in to look, it got favorable reviews, the Japanese even got a look at it, but somehow (as happens with boards of directors, lol) nothing happened.
The design was set aside. People turned their attention to other things. A while later a new car hit the market and it launched the manufacturer into stardom. A while later Dick saw an advertizement for a new automobile being produced in Japan, and the design looked very familiar. Here is a photo of the car, and it came right out of Ford studios off the pen of Dick Avery. It's not "who was the better designer" because they are both very talented; in modern history they are from different eras, Lowey from the end of the "industrial revolution" sort of, and Avery as a contemporary. I'd say it was more of a situation of opportunity and timing. With the Dick Avery 240-Z design below, again you see great proportions, great integration of form, and a darn clean design. It sold like hot cakes too. Looking at some of Ford's subsequent designs, it's pretty apparent in retrospect, Ford would have done well by assigning Dick Avery on more automotive projects!
Here's what one journalist said about the 240Z: "Styled in some ways after the Jaguar XKE, the Datsun 240Z was made to compete for U.S. sales with sporty British GT convertibles and coupes. It had a 150-horsepower inline, 2.4-liter six-cylinder motor that was exceedingly durable, and a fully-independent suspension with superb weight distribution. The car was cheap--$3,526, or about $16,000 in 1999 dollars--and the demand for the 240Z was so strong that in 1970, less than a year after the car's debut, Kelley Blue Book valued used 240Zs at $4,000, well above the original sticker price."
Here is a photo I took of Dick (right) and Jack Telnack (left) a couple years ago. What an all-around great guy!
These two gents worked together at Ford, by the way, both are designers, Jack did the Taurus program, and numerous other designs, while Dick went to Chris Craft. Now that Jack saw how much fun Dick had at Chris Craft, he has actually become a design consultant at CC. The two are good friends.
It's amazing what you learn on the net. The Lowey info is pretty interesting too. I wonder if Datsun stole the design through industrial espionage, or if Ford sold it to them?
..., three of which have appeared over the years on the web:
Virens, Kokomo, and The Lab.
More details here: http://www.geocities.com/alloyed2sea/Tournament_55.html
So where are the other two you ask?
Well there the mystery deepens,..., with one purportedly resting on the bottom of the deepest ravine in the Carribbean - the victim of itz space-age turbine (yes, CC installed turbine) motors overheating and mother nature lending a hand with a vicious gale which severed the tow rope, after which the attending crew could only watch as she went to the bottom while barely saving themselves to tell the tale.
No doubt, the fifth and final Tournament 55 will show up soon, but if you want to see them all, we'll need to hire Capt Ballard (aka,"Mr.Titanic"), he's good at this kinda thing.
You would think, with a boat this big and noteworthy, that every one would be accounted for and tracked by enthusiasts. After all, they're tough to hide in a marina, tough to keep people from seeing those fantastic lines, and there are a LOT of Chris Craft enthusiasts out there too. It's possible someone has a 4th one hidden away somewhere, perhaps in a warehouse, and perhaps one is on the bottom too.
I found out doing some research into the Ford Motor Company manufacturing practices, and I suspect all auto manufacturers of the era were the same, their records never were all that accurate with regards to what they shared with the public, and now the internal records are simply gone. With regards to whether or not they ever built a 2-bolt industrial 427, for instance, only folklore remains and perhaps a few walking history books who may have been there. I don't think it's the case, however, as there seems to be plenty of evidence that a 2-bolt 427 is an oxymoron with no logical purpose, etc. However, whenever someone says "Ford NEVER built a.........whatever" because it doesn't appear in the Steve Christ book, etc., it is never a 100% certainty that they're right.
After all, aliens did lend a hand in the construction of the pyramids, and if given enough time in eternity, a monkey does have a scientific probability of playing the complete works of Mozart at a piano, given enough eons of time.
So back to the 55' TF. On this one I would tend to go with the Essential Guide, simply because boats of this size are so noteworthy the press picks them up, and we see articles like we did on Virens, etc., and people track these boats, etc.
As with Ford Motor Company, who changed cylinder head design any time they wanted to, who is to say Chris Craft didn't build a prototype that found it's way into private hands?? I'll bet Dick Avery would know, after all he was there! I'll send him a note, perhaps he'll be able to shed some light on this one!
The 58 seems to be the "Top of the Commander Food Chain"
October 11 2006, 7:16 AM
For you avid Chris Craft Tournament Fisherman fans out there !
Here's a thread on the 58, along with a few words from Dick Avery. In this thread you'll also see some great scans and articles, thanks to Bill Thomas for sharing them. For your reading enjoyment!
Not really that surprising, or anyway denigrating to the superlative efforts of Mr. Conrad, only indicative of the enormity of the task of "tracking" every nuance of CC's manifold productive efforts - spanning what, 70 yrs?
Rest assured, however, five Roamer 55 TFs were built - at least if Mr. James Wyck's (www.chrisparts.com) recollection is taken as gospel; nevermind CC Roamers own archival records.
Any seen ever a 1957 Roamer SF 35'? The world wonders. http://www.geocities.com/alloyed2sea/Sportfishermen_35.html
We've noticed numerous errors or omissions (more omissions than errors) in the Essential Guide, and the one that immediately comes to mind is the power spec for the 38' Commander. The Essential guide doesn't mention the original 38 Commander was available with twin 210-hp small blocks, but there is PLENTY of evidence that they did, including a lot of sales literature.
Jim Wick at LPX worked at CC of course, along with Dan Cook, and they would certainly have an inside knowledge of information that Mr. Conrad may not have been able to tap into.
It seems that depending upon who you knew at the time, would influence whether or not you could get this or that engine installed, and maybe some other special features "for a friend" sort of deal. Therefore I wouldn't rule out seeing something from CC that doesn't appear in the books.
Very interesting history back then. I was a lifeguard on Midway Hotel Beach at the time, babes everywhere and not a Commander in sight (but more wood speedboats than you could count!) Had I not been on an inland lake in Pennsylvania (Conneaut Lake) I would have also been exposed to larger Chris Craft boats like the Commander and Roamer series. Some of you guys were lucky in that regard!
Jerry Conrad's errors have been is selection of photos, colors, etc. That's understandable. The production records are Chris-Craft Corporation written records, not someone's 30 year old recollections.
With the LPX (Jim Wick) info, he's looking at CC production and manufacturing information he apparently had available to him at the time he worked at CC, and still uses for cross referencing underwater gear, motors, models, etc. I've talked to Jim in the past and he had access to some files I found of interest.
He looked up engine options for 1966 for instance, and seemed surprised to see there was a supplementary listing that year that included the Chrysler 426B (wedge head, not hemi) and maybe even the 413 as well, due to availability problems (fire, labor, whatever). It would be interesting to see what CC records he has available, because his may be more accurate than the ones Mr. Conrad was able to get access to, or vice versa!
Looking back at Ford Motor Company records, even if someone had good records, they still didn't reflect all the changes that were made, etc., and that's not necessarily a good corollary with CC boat production. That 390-hp hydraulic valve 427 of 1968 is one that seems to rile people from time to time, and some still even think it was a 2-bolt motor, part of the lore of dis-information that has been allowed to live on.
All said and done, the Conrad book is fascinating!
Indeed, literally "believing" in the written word (bible/koran/torah/essential guide) or possessing faith in the power of reason is one of the more the fundamental choices facing mankind. Judging from the success Shi'ia 9'ers and 12'ers are having in the ME, and Florida state voting officals had in 2002, count me in as one of the 5'ers when it comes to the number of 55' Roamer TFs ever built.
Eric posted this intriguing post ten months ago, and so far #4 has not been found yet. In reality, it could well be berthed in some Island Nation south of the Equator, but a boat this size and with this history is sure to have been spotted by some informed yachtsman, even if it was sitting on the hard somewhere.
Interesting note about the one turbine powered 55' Commander that sank off the Bimini Trench, Grand Caymans in 2000 fathoms! That would be quite the artifact to find in a hundred years!
Here are some images of a 1959 25' steel Roamer I tried to buy a few years ago. It had twin 'K' Chris Craft engines (although the Essential Guide does not mention that option).
Unfortunately, I was unable to get the owner down to my price range. It was very complete, but needed a lot of interior wood refinishing.
Very interesting boat, built for speed too. I don't think it would have been too good in rough water, but with a pair of torquey model K's, I think it would have been fast enough to water ski behind. Some of those steel hulls are actually pretty weight efficient.
Good looking boat by the way, very unique and cool. You wouldn't ever see yourself out on the water driving one of those.
Cool boat, for sure, almost Art Deco in a way, sort of an "Industrial Revolution" sort of feel to it. I think (from memory now) CC acquired Roamer in '55. This is one of the early ones.
Ouu-ch!
Quite flat indeed; all the better to go "sledding" with. Here's the brochure shot from that year. More info on the 25' Sportsman (of which a total of 15 were built) can be found here: http://www.geocities.com/alloyed2sea/Sportsman.html
Appreciate the fine photos - "Luer Me Marie" has now entered the pantheon of Roamer stars (otherwise called the "List of Known Survivors") - gotta hull#?
CHeers!
Eric
Webmaster, CC Roamers
"Tin Tonic"
(1967 CC Roamer Riviera 37' - AL)
Of that 6000 to 6600 pounds they list, a lot of it has to be that Hercules iron and transmission. THose things are great boat anchors.
Whatever speed that sled could muster with a pair of Hercules, would be pale by comparison with what it could do with lighter weight and more powerful SBC motors. Since the boat was built about the time CC started using the SBC, I am wondering if they may have been an option for that model. If so, give it another 10-mph with the additional 200-hp and lighter weight factor.
Coolest looking brick I've seen for a while, and one that floats too! Hercules or otherwise, when you pull into a harbor in that thing, people will stop and watch. Pretty nifty, and I would think a lot of fun with a pair of flatheads, or SBC motors too. Looks like riding on a sheet of plywood, er steel, on the aft section of that hull.
We'll call this one a "Commander" executed in aluminum
April 5 2008, 3:40 PM
The lines are undeniably "Commander", but since it was built of aluminum by Roamer, it's technially a Roamer. Avery's proportions and style are as strong in aluminum at this size as they are in fiberglass. These are essentially "custom yachts" designed by Dick Avery, rare indeed, and I'll bet it's a real blast to own one. You sure won't be seeing yourself on the water!
