OK, the quest continues for a 1960 352-HP cam shaft.....you wouldnt think it would be this hard to buy a stock Ford cam shaft!! :^)

Here is Part 1 of this post if you are interested: http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/thread/1227061066/FE+1960+352+HP+camshaft+specifications-

WerbyFord mentioned that a Crane Fireball 294 cam might work - we are looking into that, but we really want the stock cam.

My dad talked to Crane this morning and although they have over 16,000 cams available, they have no idea what a stock 1960 FE 352-HP looks like (incredible, but true).

My dad found an old Hot Rod book that lists the cam shaft specifications (COAE6250-B) that match what some of you posted in Part 1 of this post, but Crane says they still need to know the degree of duration starting at 0.050. I dont understand cam grinds like I should, so I am not sure why all of the specifications in the early 60s Hot Rod book isnt enough, but Crane says it isnt (they actually asked my dad to post this question on the internet).

My questions..

1) Does anyone know the degree of duration starting at 0.050 for the 1960 352-HP?

2) Or, a quality cam provider that will know how to grind a stock 1960 352-HP cam?

Thanks!

Mike

.

"The Poor Mans 427"
http://www.fordification.com/poormans427.htm

1973-1979 Ford Truck Enterprise Link:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/399900



Wes Adams FORD428CJ
Built Ford Tuff With Good Ford Stuff
79 F-250 X-Cab 4x4 with a 6.9 Turbo Diesel
64 Falcon X-Ram 428
55 FORD Truck 4-link Rides on air with X-Ram 428
2000 Yamaha V-MAX VMOA#4277
2000 Yamaha 700 Mountain Max
2001 Polaris 600 Edge X
2001 Polaris 500 SP

COAE6250-B? Yeah, pretty sure. But, I wouldn't bet my life on it. :^)

Attached is the page from the 1960 High Performance Special Engine Specifications - 352 4 Barrel, dated January 25, 1960.

I have more specific info on the C0AE-6250-B camshaft itself, if need be.

Regards,

Dennis

Hi Dennis,



Great info! Thank you so much for posting. Yes, I do think I need additional specific info on the C0AE-6250-B camshaft. I don't understand as much as I should on camshafts, but Crane Cams is telling us that the general specifications of the cam are not enough for them to grind one up for us as Ford made it difficult at the time for the aftermarket and didn't usually include "the degree of duration starting at 0.050" information.



I guess I need to understand camshafts a bit better....



Mike

This cam appears to have the same timing events as the C3AE-6250-D cam, 306 deg and .298355" cam lift, which is about .525" valve lift with zero lash.

They call out the lift in one deg increments, so I would imagine it could be plotted and calculated.

I think the D cam is the 427 cam. The difference between these two is the old and late thrust design. Do you need the cam with the early design thurst flange?

Regards,
Dennis

It would finally help put this mystery to rest, the .050 lift and .100 lift should then show up!
thanks for all the trouble

Measuring from .050 is a new thing, at least as far as I know. It was/is difficult to get measurement exact below that point. Many early cams, from factory as well as vendors were all not uniform in the measurement (or where they started).

I think it was in the 80's that the industry finally started to standardize. They should know that much better than me. I have a feeling they are kind of sending you out looking for a "left-handed" hammer.

..I think you are probably right. I get the feeling that the ".05" issue is just how Crane indexes its cam shafts.

My dad is currently on his way to FE Specialists in Sacramento to see if they can shed any light.

Mike

The timing events are within 1 degree of those for the later c3az-d and c3az-aa cams (the 228-228-114 or so at .050" cam for the 427/410hp etc)



The lobe lift is also the good old .298, same as the 427 cams, for .500 net lift.



I am now very convinced that the 352/360, 390/375, 390/401, 406/385, 406/405, and 427/410 ran this same cam. It looks like for the 352/360 it might be advanced a degree or so but still the same grind.



Remember for a long time, so many books said that the intake port height for the 58-65 352/390 was only 1.94" instead of the correct 2.34"? Same typo got carried from book to book. Perhaps the .480 lift attributed to the 352/360 was similar - lash subtracted twice? Or maybe the .480 is real but I'd sure like to se a similar TSB - hard to believe they would reduce the lift.



I maintain that the Crane Fireball 294 is very close, may even be in fact this ubiquitous cam grind.



Thanks again for the TSB



Edit: For Mike, Ford does provide the .100" lobe duration for the c3az-aa which I think is same as coae-b per this thread.
The .100" events and duration is
-15 30 33 -18 195 195 114.0 1.5
From Ford Muscle Parts Supplement 1.
Other less formal sources assert that the .050" duration is 228-228 give or take a degree. One of them is an old post from the predecessor to this forum. That is how I conclude the Fireball 294 is the right cam.

Maybe Crane can tell us the .100" lobe on their Fireball 294 to confirm?

I think the TSB info rounds off the duration degrees.

The other stuff I have shows it in minutes, and the lobe lift to six places.

A cursory look appears to be the same as the C3AE-D camshaft.

Be careful with the "Z" service part cams, sometimes the cam spec numbers change.

I would have to convert them back to engineering part numbers.

Didn't we talk about this same topic quite a while back, that these cams were all essentially the same? Seems like I posted on this before.

Regards,
Dennis

Edit: For Mike, Ford does provide the .100" lobe duration for the c3az-aa which I think is same as coae-b per this thread.
The .100" events and duration is
-15 30 33 -18 195 195 114.0 1.5
From Ford Muscle Parts Supplement 1.
Other less formal sources assert that the .050" duration is 228-228 give or take a degree. One of them is an old post from the predecessor to this forum. That is how I conclude the Fireball 294 is the right cam.

Maybe Crane can tell us the .100" lobe on their Fireball 294 to confirm?

was a hell of a cam in it's day. That cam and long tube headers would turn a 390/300 pig into a sterling performer, yet mild enough to be very streetable. I always wondered why Ford didn't install that cam in 66 and 67 Fairlane GT's. A lot of guys did just that and made also ran's into front runners, Waranty concerns I suppose...

------------------------------------------
FE's, Thunderbolts and single malt scotch.

If am not sure if this will be helpful, but within the last year I had my 61 390 rebuilt...among the things the rebuilder did was to replace the stock cam with one ground to RV specs...a bit more torque low end torgue...it idles smooth and runs great!...among commercial rebuilders this is apparently a common practice with these engines.

The service replacement cam for the HP 352 and the 61 HP 390 is C2AZ 6250 A. According to the Ford Performance Manual [Ray Brock/HRM magazine] this cam is the service replacement cam for the C0AZ 6250 B and other than a minor timing change the cam is the same as the earlier C0AZ-B cam. Lift at the valve with .025" lash is .479" both In. and Ex. In. open @ 24 BTDC close @ 72 ABDC Ex. open @ 72 BBDC close @ 24 ATDC. Overlap: 48 deg. Avertised Duration: 276 deg. The "At .050" lift duration was not widely used until the late 70s and came into existence because cam grinders used their own advertised lift figures and used anywhere from .001" to .020" of valve lift for their own specs. The "at .050" is a more accurate standard.

60 Starliner 460, 61 Starliner 427, 66 Galaxie 428, 67 Fairlane 427, 66 Fairlane 390, 69 F-250 390, 72 Lincoln 460 and 3 Ford powered Hotboats