I'm nearing the end of my intake testing, with two engines to go. First is a 427 built around the shortblock that Blair Patrick used in his 2006 Engine Masters entry, and the street/strip ported Edelbrock heads that I used in the Car Craft article. This engine should make around 550-600 HP, depending on the intake. Second is a stroked 427 that displaces 492 cubic inches, and dynoed at 667 HP with a Victor and a 1000 cfm 4150 carb. The testing on these engines should go pretty quickly, because I won't be testing all the intakes on them, only the better intakes (I am assuming that if someone builds a strong 427 or stroker engine, they won't be running an Edelbrock SP2P or factory cast iron low riser intake).
After testing on the last two engines is complete, I'm going to be sticking the stroker 390 and the 428CJ back on the dyno to test a few more intakes on each. Since completing testing on these engines, I have rounded up a few more intakes I haven't had, and I want to go back and test them on these engines. Once that is complete, I will have all the data and can finish the book in short order.
In the interest of being as complete as possible, I am trying to acquire an example of any commonly available carbureted FE intake in order to test it. The only ones that I know for sure that I am missing are the new Edelbrock air gap 8V intake, and the Edelbrock 6X2 intake, that uses six Stromberg or Ford/Holley carbs. I'm working on acquiring those two now. Below is the list of the intakes that I have. If anyone knows any others that I am missing, please let me know.
1. Blue Thunder 4V dual plane, 427MR ports
2. Blue Thunder 4V dual plane, 428CJ ports
3. Blue Thunder 8V dual plane, 427 MR ports
4. Blue Thunder Weber 48 IDA intake
5. Dove 4V single plane
6. Dove 8V tunnel wedge single plane
7. Dove 8V tunnel ram
8. Edelbrock F262 dual plane, for Edelbrock/Carter carbs
9. Edelbrock F427 4V dual plane
10. Edelbrock Performer 390 4V dual plane
11. Edelbrock Performer RPM 4V dual plane
12. Edelbrock SP2P 4V dual plane
13. Edelbrock Streetmaster
14. Edelbrock F380 6V, using three Stromberg or Ford/Holley 2V carbs
15. Edelbrock Victor 4V single plane, 4150 carb
16. Edelbrock Victor 4V single plane, 4500 carb
17. Edelbrock X-F66 8V single plane crossram
18. Ford 352 HP 4V dual plane intake
19. Ford 390 HP 4V dual plane intake
20. Ford 427MR 4V dual plane intake
21. Ford 390 4V dual plane low riser cast iron intake (C4 part number)
22. Ford 428CJ 4V dual plane cast iron intake
23. Ford 427MR 8V dual plane intake
24. Ford 427LR 8V dual plane intake
25. Ford 428 Police Interceptor 4V dual plane intake
26. Ford 390 4V dual plane cast iron "S" intake
27. Ford 390 4V dual plane cast iron "T" intake
28. Ford 427 4V dual plane Sidewinder intake
29. Ford 406 6V dual plane tripower intake
30. Ford 427MR 8V single plane tunnel wedge intake
31. Holley Street Dominator 4V single plane intake
32. Mickey Thompson 8V single plane crossram intake
33. Offenhauser 4V single plane 360 degree intake
34. Offenhauser 8V single plane 360 degree intake
35. Offenhauser 4V Dual Port intake
36. Offenhauser Port-O-Sonic intake
37. Pro-Stock Engineering (PSE) FE base + 351C Edelbrock Torker intake
38. Weiand 4V single plane intake
A couple of other notes on this list:
- I have most of these manifolds in as-cast and port-matched versions, for comparative testing purposes
- I don't have a 390 6V Thunderbird intake (with the flat carb pads), but I would expect it's performance to be the same as the 406 6V intake (with the angled carb pads). I base this conclusion on back to back testing of two Blue Thunder intakes, one with the angled carb pad (standard 427 4V intake), and one with the flat carb pad (special version for use on GT-40s). These two intakes gave identical results.
- With the PSE base I could actually bolt on a whole pile of 351C intakes and run tests, but I'd rather not open that particular can of worms, especially since the PSE bases are hard to find.
Thanks for looking, and if you know of one that I'm missing, please let me know - Jay
Jay Brown
1968 Shelby GT 500 Convertible, 492" 667 HP FE
1969 R code Mach 1, 490" supercharged FE, 9.35 @ 151.20, 2007 Drag Week Runner Up, Power Adder Big Block
2005 Ford GT, 2006 Drag Week Winner, 12.0 Daily Driver
1969 Ford Galaxie XL, 460 (Ho Hum....)
1964 Ford Galaxie 500, 510" SOHC
Jay: Thanks for all the research on manifolds. You certainly did a hell of lot of work. I have a sheet metal manifold with Dom's on it if you want to try it out. Might be too much for a small FE. Again, thanks for all your effort. Bart
Bart, thanks for the offer. The only problem with the sheet metal intake is that every one of them is a little different, because most of them are custom made for the application. So, test results from one may be different than from any other sheet metal intake. I also doubt that even my 492" mule would be able to use the intake that you have, but I'll think about it. Thanks again for the offer - Jay
Jay Brown
1968 Shelby GT 500 Convertible, 492" 667 HP FE
1969 R code Mach 1, 490" supercharged FE, 9.35 @ 151.20, 2007 Drag Week Runner Up, Power Adder Big Block
2005 Ford GT, 2006 Drag Week Winner, 12.0 Daily Driver
1969 Ford Galaxie XL, 460 (Ho Hum....)
1964 Ford Galaxie 500, 510" SOHC
the scope of your exploration, have you considered the acquisition (purchase or loan) of a set of TP heads to make possible the trial of the manifolds that are part of that 'family' of FEs? Since the TP is such an integral part of the performance history of the Ford/Edsel engine, it sure would be nice to have it take its rightful place in your book!
KS
This message has been edited by cammerfe on Nov 30, 2008 12:33 PM
Are you only testing aluminum manifolds? I reread the fine print again & now saw that you are only testing performance manifolds. Sorry for my confusion so strike the E400 manifold.
I've got a 1958 Edsel manifold (E-400) and the Edelbrock F380 (tripower with 3 Stromberg WW's positive linkage) as well as the ML680 6 deuce I responded to you wanted post earlier. Not sure if you only test the manifold or also carb combo's.
I'd consider loaning the 6 deuce for your use in testing. we would have to figure out shipping. The one I bought came from Menominee Falls Wisc.
This message has been edited by FERoadster on Nov 29, 2008 12:43 PM This message has been edited by FERoadster on Nov 29, 2008 12:19 PM This message has been edited by FERoadster on Nov 29, 2008 12:15 PM
The Edsel manifold might be interesting, but I am trying to keep the testing performance oriented. I doubt the Edsel would make a lot of power. Thanks anyway though.
If I can't find a 6X2 Edelbrock intake, I may be interested in borrowing yours for the tests. I'd be happy to pay shipping both ways if you'd be willing to lend it to me.
Jay Brown
1968 Shelby GT 500 Convertible, 492" 667 HP FE
1969 R code Mach 1, 490" supercharged FE, 9.35 @ 151.20, 2007 Drag Week Runner Up, Power Adder Big Block
2005 Ford GT, 2006 Drag Week Winner, 12.0 Daily Driver
1969 Ford Galaxie XL, 460 (Ho Hum....)
1964 Ford Galaxie 500, 510" SOHC
Youreally ought to test one tunnel ram with the Pro-Stock Engineering (PSE) FE base.
November 29 2008, 1:05 PM
There were several tunnel runs available for the 351C and there is no other way to mount a commercially available tunnel ram to the FE that I'm aware of.
I think this would be a useful addition.
Bob
1966 7 Litre Convertible
1959 F-100 (under construction)
2005 GT40 (in my Dreams)
And I've tested that on the existing engines. They are still available from Dove, although you might have to wait a while for one, and then fix some leaks LOL! Do you think a 351C tunnel ram on the PSE base would be a useful addition? I was kind of thinking that the PSE bases are harder to get than the Dove tunnel ram...
Jay Brown
1968 Shelby GT 500 Convertible, 492" 667 HP FE
1969 R code Mach 1, 490" supercharged FE, 9.35 @ 151.20, 2007 Drag Week Runner Up, Power Adder Big Block
2005 Ford GT, 2006 Drag Week Winner, 12.0 Daily Driver
1969 Ford Galaxie XL, 460 (Ho Hum....)
1964 Ford Galaxie 500, 510" SOHC
2x4 351C tunnel for my PSE base, haven't gotten around to trimming it to fit yet. Have to set it up on the Bridgeport and trim the ends of the mounting flanges a bit. We used to run a Torker on one in a jet boat, was a 428 with the domed high compression CJ pistons, looked like the small dome 427 pistons, but in 428 bore size (came from H-M sale for $3 ea) and a DeLong cam around .590 lift, went like stink and was the loudest boat on the lake with the 6" Bassett megaphones- really popped out the exhaust
Somebody told me it was the factory 61 HP aluminum manifold so I bought it. I've never run it due to the large runner size in the manifold and the smaller runner size in the factory '67 GT heads. If you'd like to give it a run, let me know and I'll ship it to ya!
Looks like a fairly low-rise intake, would probably fit on the '66 Bird. If it runs decent, and would fit under the 'Bird hood, I might be interested in buying or trading for it
On my 428CJ, the 390HP intake made 382 peak HP and 472 peak ft-lbs of torque. As a comparison, the Performer RPM, which was one of the top two or three intakes, made 407 peak HP and 484 peak ft-lbs.
Jay Brown
1968 Shelby GT 500 Convertible, 492" 667 HP FE
1969 R code Mach 1, 490" supercharged FE, 9.35 @ 151.20, 2007 Drag Week Runner Up, Power Adder Big Block
2005 Ford GT, 2006 Drag Week Winner, 12.0 Daily Driver
1969 Ford Galaxie XL, 460 (Ho Hum....)
1964 Ford Galaxie 500, 510" SOHC
Similar to a LR 2x4? Sounds like it would be a pretty good improvement over the stock iron manifold, while maybe still fitting under the 'Bird hood. Joe, would you consider selling it, or doing some horsetrading? Got a pile of Streetmasters & Street Dominators, and lots of other goodies
Just wondering which version of the 428PI intake you are using. I agree that a test of the 8V cleveland t-ram on the PSE base would be interesting if only to see if pro-stock Paul was on to something or only full of hot air. Thanks again for all your time and efforts doing the testing that all of us can learn from. Looking forward to the book.
At some point I would like to put together a factory-ish 427 high riser and 427 tunnel port, and test the manifolds on these engines. But so far, I've only done LR/MR heads and a cammer intake comparo.
Jay Brown
1968 Shelby GT 500 Convertible, 492" 667 HP FE
1969 R code Mach 1, 490" supercharged FE, 9.35 @ 151.20, 2007 Drag Week Runner Up, Power Adder Big Block
2005 Ford GT, 2006 Drag Week Winner, 12.0 Daily Driver
1969 Ford Galaxie XL, 460 (Ho Hum....)
1964 Ford Galaxie 500, 510" SOHC
I have ran many 351-C engines.As far as the 2x4 tunnel ram. The UR 19 is the best. But hard to find. And the single 1x4 one is the strip dominator.Also want to thank you for all the hard work on this project.
Jack in Ga
LOL Jack I can't help chuckle your offering up the Cleveland Strip Dominator after saying
November 29 2008, 2:55 PM
the specific Cleveland(2)4V is hard to find but the mentioned Holley Strip Dominator 1-4v can't be much harder to find == none on eBay present or past auctions. The Cleveland guys cherish and pay for the HSDs
I picked up a UR19 cut and reshaped into the spitting image of
the intakes Roush modified. I might take some pics and post them
here in a bit to see if the experts will offer opinions.
are you going to measure and record the port lengths of each of the intakes? IMO this info could be very helpful to optimize intake selection for any engine. At least I would really be interested in it since I'm an engine geek LOL...
I will have all the dimensions on all the intakes, including carb pad height, manifold weight, volume in ccs, and lengths of each runner, at least as close as I can measure it.
Jay Brown
1968 Shelby GT 500 Convertible, 492" 667 HP FE
1969 R code Mach 1, 490" supercharged FE, 9.35 @ 151.20, 2007 Drag Week Runner Up, Power Adder Big Block
2005 Ford GT, 2006 Drag Week Winner, 12.0 Daily Driver
1969 Ford Galaxie XL, 460 (Ho Hum....)
1964 Ford Galaxie 500, 510" SOHC
I'd never heard off this one: Mustang Masters @ Turkey Rod Run had SHELBY labeled
November 29 2008, 2:39 PM
Low Riser w/ exceptionally large runners that had me scratching my head and actually measuring the carb flange center to make sure it was not a Sidewinder. The Sidewinder and Ed F427 share enourmous runners that taper down to the heads intake port.
Because I own one I'm thinking that there was a series of Intake Manifolds such as the 429SCJs that were labeled SHELBY and later on were sold under the Ford Power Parts label. Im thinking this unique massive runner SHELBY might have gone on to be a Ford Power Parts piece and (maybe long shot here) a Blue Thunder?
I've seen a few Shelby and Holman Moody intakes...
November 29 2008, 2:48 PM
And for the most part they seem to be factory pieces, just cast with the Shelby or HM logo. But I've never seen a low riser piece marked like this. Did you get any pictures of it?
Jay Brown
1968 Shelby GT 500 Convertible, 492" 667 HP FE
1969 R code Mach 1, 490" supercharged FE, 9.35 @ 151.20, 2007 Drag Week Runner Up, Power Adder Big Block
2005 Ford GT, 2006 Drag Week Winner, 12.0 Daily Driver
1969 Ford Galaxie XL, 460 (Ho Hum....)
1964 Ford Galaxie 500, 510" SOHC
Like a dum-ass I had my camera in my friends Parts Cart and failed to get picture. If it
November 29 2008, 3:03 PM
were a Med Riser port I'd likely gone for a long walk to get the camera. I know the SIDEWINDERS and Ed F427s (both with enourmous tapering runners that just look mean) are low riser/CJ ports. If it were Med Riser port that would have been the only big runner one I know of.
The effect of an enormously tapered runner (Sidewinder) as contrasted to the sustained size runners such as those on a Perf RPM intrigues me to no end.
This message has been edited by qikbbstang on Nov 29, 2008 3:10 PM
I got a very early one from John Corrunker. It had been welded to make it fit a LR, and slabbed-off correctly, but I had to open up the runners to get rid of the protrusions. (Did it all by hand with files and a rasp!) Used it on my '67 XR7GT---in '68. The engine was a '63 427 that I traded 289 HP pieces for, also in pieces, in the summer of 1968. I ended-up with the only AC, power brakes and steering 427 car I knew of.
KS
Jay, there is a Weiand and possibly an Edelbrock 8 X 2 log manifold that was available in the late 1950's - early 1960's. I believe one of them was called a U-Fab because there was some fabrication required. Only seen a couple of them over the years, and I doubt they make very good numbers on the dyno since they were intended for the 332 / 352 and used the tiny Stromberg 94 / Holley 48 2V carbs. They look cool on a T bucket though.
Maybe I can find a picture of one for you to use in your book.
1912 Model T Ford touring Salmon (ugh!)
1913 Model T Ford Touring original Black paint
1915 Model T Ford Roadster Black
1915 Model T Ford touring Black of course!
1967 Cougar GT 390 Cardinal Red / Black
1968 Cougar GTE 427 Augusta Green / Saddle
http://www.supermotors.net/vehicles/registry/15029/50071-2
Here's a 1958 ad for the Edelbrock 6X2 log manifold
November 29 2008, 3:51 PM
Unfortunately no picture. It calls the FE version a "1958 Ford V8" with part number F-68. Not surprisingly it is the most expensive manifold on the list. I will keep looking, there is a Weiand 8V U - Fab advertisement in one of the magazines around here.
There is a picture of the Edelbrock 6 x 2 manifold on page 37 of the Ford Performance Handbook [Ray Brock]in the Engine Modification section. Also on the same page is a pic. of the Edel. 2 x 4 dual plane and the Edel. 3 x 2 manifold.
60 Starliner 460, 61 Starliner 427, 66 Galaxie 428, 67 Fairlane 427, 66 Fairlane 390, 69 F-250 390, 72 Lincoln 460 and 3 Ford powered Hotboats
the 'U-fab' name came from Crower. They were all steel and largely made from exhaust tubing; needing to be welded/brazed together. Joined with pieces of rad hose, clamped on. A friend from that time had one on a Nail-Head Buick in a '23 T pick-up. I don't think I ever saw one made for an FE.
KS
Just goes to prove that "in the old Days" ... Ford "anything" was expensive.
December 1 2008, 8:04 AM
anytime we went to the local speedshop, I started out figuring the price for a Ford part (if it was available - would be 2 times the cost of the same sbc part).
Plus it would be special order only.... Life was hard for a Ford guy in a GM world. Oh, how the worm turns!
Jay, I actually became aware of these intakes from Dusty Roades who was on an expedition to Venezuela
with Indiana Jones. While searching for the brass monkey they came across several of these intakes at the bottom of a abandoned mine pit and recovered several of them. When I recieved the photo the intake was sitting on top of a Canadian C-4/FE bellhousing. These intakes are fairly well known to the kids around Caracas who've adapted them to there bump side pickups using an air cleaner from a 56 GMC cattle truck. The air cleaner kind of looks like a big roll from a submarine sandwich.
I'll post that photo as soon as I find it...
------------------------------------------
FE's, Thunderbolts and single malt scotch.
Just remembered, the 351C manifold we ran on the PSE in the boat was a 1-4V Dominator manifold, can't remember what brand- ran really good with a 1050
Cantrell's dad had a cool manifold, it was a Shelby- logoed 1-4V Dominator setup, similar to a Sidewinder, but with a Dominator flange- had it on his '54, on a side-oiler MR he put together out of some of the stash they bought from H-M. Not exactly an easy to find piece, but priceless when he opened the hood of that old drab green '54- fun car, had a '65 Shelby rearend w/ 3.91's & a locker, LTD discs on the front, 3 spd w/OD, and a big ol' okie in Dickie's at the wheel- shocked the hell of of more than one kid in a Camaro. Would have made a great likker car
I've got a 4 carb Latham that came off a y-block but have Original sales literature from Latham about their factory built FE manifold not an adapter like SBC's & Y-blocks. They cast custom manifolds for MEL's & FE's
This may be way out of your realm & rare limited interest & high $$$ for what you are looking to publish. Latham even produce 5 & 6 carb setups in my literature.
I was lucky and bought my Latham in 1975 for $250.
the C3 427/410 Lowriser.
The 6X2&8X2 U-Fabs were made by Crower.
Always thought the 8X2 might work kinda like the Man-a-fre for the sbc. W/the small carbs directly over the ports throttle response should be good.
The big Holley blitz in the mid 60's killed all these multi-carb setups.
Ron.
I would REALLY like to see some photos. I've done a little research in the past day or two, but have not been able to find a good picture of a C3 intake. I think it may be the same as the 390 HP intake, but there is no way to know without looking at a photo.
If you want to take a regular photo I'd be happy to cover your film and developing expenses. You can email me direct at jaybnveyahoocom. Thanks for your efforts, Ron!
Jay Brown
1968 Shelby GT 500 Convertible, 492" 667 HP FE
1969 R code Mach 1, 490" supercharged FE, 9.35 @ 151.20, 2007 Drag Week Runner Up, Power Adder Big Block
2005 Ford GT, 2006 Drag Week Winner, 12.0 Daily Driver
1969 Ford Galaxie XL, 460 (Ho Hum....)
1964 Ford Galaxie 500, 510" SOHC
This message has been edited by jaybnve on Dec 1, 2008 11:11 AM
Down load the entire Offenhauser catalog from Exeterautosupply.com. Not search friendly but is a photocopy of all manifolds produced by Offy. Exeter Auto is an alliance vendor on HAMB & helpful on questions.
I doubt that either of those intakes will ever sit on my dyno. The one with the Autolite inline 4 barrels looks like one of the Edelbrock 6X2 intakes, just modified to accept the Autolites.
Fortunately, I'm restricting my testing to manifolds that may be reasonably available!
Jay Brown
1968 Shelby GT 500 Convertible, 492" 667 HP FE
1969 R code Mach 1, 490" supercharged FE, 9.35 @ 151.20, 2007 Drag Week Runner Up, Power Adder Big Block
2005 Ford GT, 2006 Drag Week Winner, 12.0 Daily Driver
1969 Ford Galaxie XL, 460 (Ho Hum....)
1964 Ford Galaxie 500, 510" SOHC
was hand carved out of a piece of solid Granite. Must weigh a ton and I can't imagine it even working. The second one looks cool and inline Autolites are plentiful. (TIC)
similar to the old Hemi Rat Roaster.
I was going to set up my Tecalemit Jackson injectors on the Weber intake, until I started to lay it out, and discovered the injector bodies are "directional" and I have 5 of one, and 3 of the other LOL- slowed me down a little. It's a NOS setup, fittings and all still in the bags, that came with Cantrell's second GT40, P1009, as spares- it had a complete setup on the 289 when he got it, he sold it to a guy in Vallejo who was going to put it on a street rod
fairly easily, but look like larger bores- what size are they? I have a set of 2" high spacers that came with the Weber setup, might make good "adapters"
I'm wondering if that Buddy Bar Dominator manifold is the same basic casting as the Shelby-logoed one that Cantrell's dad had- probably so
Hi Jay
I have a buddy bar 4v with (4 2inch inlet holes)1050 cfm dominator carb complete with linkage et all set up for mr 427,428 or 390. Asking 1400. shipping included.
Would this be worth testing in your intake inventory.
Best regards
Lar
I have one that would be fun to try. I have an Algon injection angled stack manifold set-up with electronic injecters. I bought it off e-bay about a year a go. I don't have the computer for it.
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