hey guys been around for awhile first post. I've got a few questions for you guys. Me and a friend are in the process of puttin an fe in a foxbody mustang. It's a full chassis car, guessing finished weight is goin to be around 2500 with driver. My questions are can we get a solid 550hp out of a 390, eventually want to go to stroer but money is tight right now and would like to run it next summer. Next question what do you guys think about c1ae heads, have not cced them yet but the chambers are quite small. we using a c4ae block with webing cast in. Most likely we are going to run e-85 because of the igher octane rating of 105- how much compression can we get with the iron heads safely. have more questions but i feel like im rambling, so sorry thankx for any info in advance

I havent done anything like this, but based on other builds and the results from Jays CC build, I could say yes, but a very reserved yes

Jay got 550-ish out of a stroked 390. In theory, the peak is more of a result of cam and airflow, so you should be able to get there too.

However, he spun the 445 to 6300 with a good set of heads and a healthy cam. I doubt your C1 heads would pull those flow numbers without a professional port job.

If you copied his build, heads included, but stock stroke, and added compression for a strip only vehicle, I'd say you can get there with a 6500-6800 rpm peak, but thats now shifting at 7000 rpm with a stock block over 500 hp.

I think it would require some expensive parts to do so reliably.

Now if you are willing to stroke it, check out Jays CC build, it'd allow you to drop the rpm, and if it's race only, some additional compression may even help the cause.


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- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, TKO-600 5 speed, 3.70 9 inch
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 397 cid FE, headers, Street Dominator, 280H, 5 lug Dana 60, 4 speed

several years ago, that dyno'd over 500 on both HP and torque. Too long a story for here and now, but I used a cross-bolted C4 block, Dove F-5 heads flowing 335 at 7K on the intake (Dove matching single four manifold) and a Comp roller with .660+ lift and about 240 at .050 duration. Work done at Roush's prototype shop and run on his dyno. Had about 11.5/1 compression and was designed as a street engine. With more cam and head flow, it's entirely possible to get as much as 650 or a little bit more. The best approach to your goal is to call Barry R at Survival Motorsports.(248 438 6900)
KS

i;m in the process of biulding a flow bench, got the plans on the way.On stan wiess' flow chart it says he got 718hp out of c1ae heads, but gives no info about compression.

If everything is right, 2.2 hp per intake port cfm, 2 is a good easy number.

So if you have everything dialed in, you can make 600 hp with a 300 cfm port, but of course that's assuming everything else is jiggy


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- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, TKO-600 5 speed, 3.70 9 inch
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 397 cid FE, headers, Street Dominator, 280H, 5 lug Dana 60, 4 speed

Is that a East Coast phrase?

60 Starliner 460, 61 Starliner 427, 66 Galaxie 428, 67 Fairlane 427, 66 Fairlane 390, 69 F-250 390, 72 Lincoln 460 and 3 Ford powered Hotboats

I think its SoCal...




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- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, TKO-600 5 speed, 3.70 9 inch
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 397 cid FE, headers, Street Dominator, 280H, 5 lug Dana 60, 4 speed

I have seen a number of 450hp 390s at 9.5:1, if i took the same motor and raised compression to say 11.5:1 what kind of gains are poss. theoreticly of course. with higher compression would the numbers I want be easier to acheive. If we biuld a strocker I would like to go with a genesis block and Barry's stage x blue thinder heads(dreamin) unless I can come up wit a money tree

All else being equal, for each 1.0 rise in compression, you will increase about 10-12 HP. Torque will increase also. Joe-JDC.

Rather than asking for "opto-mystic" horsepower numbers maybe you should lets us suggest mods to get your car to do a specific ET.

550 ain't happen'n with an iron head 390.

If i was biulding a street motor for pump gas the answer would be no. besides according to multiple calculators that is the horsepower i need to go a specific ET. thats where the 550hp came from. I try not to be overly optimistic, I'm more of a realist, that said, I do not have alot of expierience biulding fe engines. I have seen intake flow numbers for the heads I have with port and bowl work flowing 250+ cfm wich should be approx. 500 hp. Seems no one has an idea on how much compression I can safely run at 105 octane any ideas out there. Iguess the biggest thing was I was hoping someone on here had gotten close to the numbers i'm lookin for and could throw some suggestions my way. If not poss. with iron heads why? not trying to be a smartass just curious. thanx for all the info so far. Brandon

Brandon, if you truly have 105 octane, you could safely run at least 12.5:1 static compression ratio. However, to get any engine to produce 1.45 hp/CI, you will need to have several things work together and be properly matched. It takes at least 270 CFM through the head at the camshaft lift-minus any lash, and the flow must be with the manifold installed. The intake manifold will need to flow at least 340 cfm in each port so it doesn't pull the head flow down. For a 390 style engine to produce that much HP, you will need a head that flows more than 270 cfm on the intake, and continues to gain flow at higher lift than the camshaft. This way the engine can draw on the intake tract according to the rpm capability of the camshaft. Internal friction must be minimalized so that the rotating assembly should only require about 12-15 lb/ft to rotate by hand, and less is better. You will need at least a 750 cfm carburetor, a good header, preferrably 2" primaries, and great ignition system. You will need an oiling system that has at least 6 qt capability, and if the Fox body is used with stock style or aftermarket engine K member, the rear sump pan is required, and that requires a custom pan. Canton supplies the pan for the Fox bodied cars. It is imperative that you balance the assembly.

As to using iron heads, they retain heat better than aluminum, and are prone to detonate because of that, if the timing is not perfect, and the octane corrrect. Aluminum draws the heat away slightly better, and you can usually get away with about 1/2 point more compression than with iron heads. The newer aluminum heads have better combustion chambers IMO, and with minimal port work will meet the target need of 270-280 cfm airflow. To go through a C1 style head, would most likely require guides, hard exhaust seats, competition valve job, new springs, retainers, keepers, valves, hand blending of machine work, milling to get combustion chambers equal, plane the exhaust face for gasket seal, new valve stem seals, and possibly heli-coils in several of the bolt holes. By the time you set up those old heads properly, you will have MORE than a new set of Edelbrocks will cost, and still not make the same amount of power over time. The iron heads will deteriorate under racing, and require valve jobs regularly. It just makes economic sense to start any racing project with the best possible equipment you can afford.

To make an honest 550 HP with a 390 style engine, will require close to $10K and that is a conservative estimate IMO. Hope this helps. Joe-JDC.