Hi Everyone!

After trolling around on the site for years, It's time to participate.
A little background: The girlfriend and I have a two-T-bird family, a 1958(hers) and a 1965(his). Her 352 has gone to greener pastures, so in went my 390. A recently-rebuilt 428 will fill the void under my hood, with the help of a shoehorn and a lot of cuss words. I should mention the Edelbrock Heads / Intake and the FPA Headers here. Of course I expected problems with this installation, as I have researched this car/motor combo exhaustively on the site. In any case, (I'm looking at Mr. Pruitt here), I would like to get some advise about a few modifications I'll be making in order to get this to work.
If I could get this picture-posting thing right, you'd be looking at my in-progress engine (it's pretty). I'll work on it.
In any case, Thanks to all for putting your knowledge and experiences out there for everyone. I assure you, it is greatly appreciated.
I'll keep everyone posted with my progress, hopefully, with pictures.
Bye for now!

that said, what small insignificant items of this upgrade are troubling you? LOL. The headers will fit fine-most of the time. If your shock towers haven't "collapsed" like mine had when I questioned the fit. Measured to spec and it all looks sorta straight so who knows???. Oh well. The 390 Performer will fit fine but the RPM will require some adjustments. If you are going to run the cruiso it all bolts right up. Just use all the old linkages you can but the RPM might require some mods. I'm sure you know the 390 and 428 are the same motor dimensionally. You need 1966 428 mounts I think but I went to a c-6 and honestly could not see the difference in the mounts (or the fit). Might not need them with the cruiso. Hawkrod would know. I am concerned that you might not have told FPA you were running a different port (Ed's)from stock (C4's)for the header flange. Not a big deal from what I understand however, just not ideal. Should not affect the fit. Speaking of fit, it is very tight near the shock towers-take your pick. One side on mine, the other side on my friends bird. If you feel a weird vibration start there. You can fit a couple business cards between mine and the tower. If I can help just e-mail me any time.

Great car-Have fun.

1965 Custom T-Bird 428 C-6
1969 XR7 R/A 428cj 4-spd (project)

Max, ask any questions that you can think of. I have been out here lurking for about 6-7 years myself and know a few things about the 64-66 series Tbirds. I have asked Mark many questions myself, but also know quite a few things from learning the hard way. One thing that I will say is that if you do all of the work yourself, you will never regret it. You will be an expert on these cars within a six month period, if you do the work yourself.
I'm running a 66 Tbird with a 390 that is dynoed at 450hp. Ed rpm intake, ported CJ heads, cross bolted mains, fresh air intake, custom headers that I fabricated, 10.5x28 MT rubber, 75hp shot of nitrous bringing me over 500hp, and many more "little" things to make it go quicker.
If you are looking for little things like rocker assembly end stands or camshafts, you can't go wrong with the vendors that are linked to this site. I will testify to Doug at Precision oil pumps as someone that you may want to use. Good luck with your engine install. Putting a FE into one of these cars isn't really that hard. My wife has watched me do it about five times, when one day, she asked me if she could pull my engine. At first I thought that she was refering to something else, but she actually meant my TBird engine. I removed all of the hardward, and disconnected all lines, and had her lift and guide the engine out of the car. Best move that I ever made! Get he involved!!
So ask any questions that you have.
Dan

REALLY!!

...

And thanks for the shiny new "Legion of the Doomed" membership card!

I'll give you guys a few more specifics, just to share the headaches.
*Pours self stiff drink, gets comfortable*

Ed RPM intake & Performer RPM heads
FPA Headers (I did talk to Stan about the details, i.e, year, Edelbrock heads instead of stock, etc.)
Cruise-o-matic tranny (has been reliable since a rebuild, used as a daily driver for years since, up until I gave the 390 to the girlfriend.
Shock towers appear as good as any I have seen, but I haven't done critical measurements to see if they match spec. Worn out or collapsed?
New motor mounts for 1965. I'm not sure of the difference between '65 and '66, if any. They're probably not factory original old stock, but knock-offs of the originals. By the way, Stan at FPA has said to me that the "newer" motor mounts are shorter than the originals, which he says were on the 'bird he spec'd out for the design of the headers. His recommendation was to create a 1/4" shim between the motor mounting bracket and the body. This would raise the headers up above the angled control arm bracket on the passenger side, where they are currently resting. This would also negate any gap between the driver side valve cover and brake booster. Ford didn't make it easy!
Speaking of valve covers, I hope the Cobra Le Mans covers fit over my adjustable rocker arm assembly. I'll find out in a few days.

I should make it clear that the headers do almost fit. They are clear of the driver side, but not by much. They are just touching the passenger side, but I won't feel comfortable until I have breathing room on both sides. Mark, in one of your older posts, you mentioned that if you were to do it all over again, you'd "relieve" the shock towers? Could you let me know what you mean?

And Dan, I have done a lot of work on my car, as well as on my girlfriend's '58. In fact, I'm so proud of the fact that she gets just as dirty as me! Regrettably, as I have gotten busier over the years, I need to pay others to do some of the work for me. That's not to say that I won't be doing any cutting and welding any modifications to the shock tower myself. I'm looking forward to that!

I'd just like to cut away about 1/4" from the passenger side shock tower / control arm bracket to allow a gap between it and the headers. Of course, since this is a structural element, I'll have to design a way to weld in a brace to allow the shock tower to take the stresses it was designed to endure. There is so little space to do so, but it seems to be more about finesse than brute strength.

I gotta say thanks again guys. I really didn't expect such a warm welcome, or commiseration, or whatever you want to call it.
I'll post again when I have a bit more figured out.

Oh, the 390 into the girlfriend's '58? Piece of cake!

some people on this board have done some wonderful work on other cars like Mustangs and Cougars. Basically it involves cutting out the inside face of the tower and welding in flat stock. This can yield a couple inches on each side. A dream. It would be THE FIRST thing I would/will do if I had the motor out. I can think of about 1 thousand reasons to do it. If one hour spent cursing is worth a couple reasons.

Maybe someone can put up some pics? You would be the first I think-let us know how it goes-lol.

Do it now and be free Grasshopper, and help free the rest of us..

Mark

1965 Custom T-Bird 428 C-6
1969 XR7 R/A 428cj 4-spd (project)

http://www.rrs-online.com/shocktowerproducts.php

430 Lincoln,to them a 390 is a small block!
Ron.

She DID have a 1960 'bird with the Lincoln 430, prior to the '58.
She put a lot of hours into it, even stripping out every 430 pushrod she could get her hands on from the junkyard!
But alas, it was not to be.
It was replaced by a nice-looking 1958 with a 352. You can see it in the photos section.
Two weeks into owning it, she was t-boned by a new VW beetle on the passenger-side door, where I was sitting.
We were rattled around inside like billiard balls, and the car had a nasty bug bite.
The beetle was destroyed.
Enter the 1960 'bird, which donated her door and front fender to the '58, a.k.a. "Chicklette".
The rest of the '60 was donated to a Thunderbird parts distributer.
When the 352 eventually failed, we put in the 390 from my '65, and she's been driving it daily since.

Welcome, it's good to have another mid-sixties Tbird guy here on the forum.

What a concept, someone putting a 428 INTO a Thunderbird rather than taking one out then scrapping the body.
(Sorry, I'm just bitter after years of reading about people gutting Tbirds for their 428's.)

The guys who responded above have tons of technical knowledge. All I can offer is possibly some 'stock' item info, as my 428 '66 isn't modified yet but was my daily driver during my college years.

Can't wait to see some pic's.

front top edge of block to hood height? That would be immensely valuable to 66 owners. Then we need manifold heights with air cleaners and carbs. It would be a start.

I have nothing to offer technically by the way. Just raw experience by trial and error. Not a technical kind of guy. Shouldn't even be allowed to post here truthfully. I just kept throwing money at it untill it worked.

Best, Mark

1965 Custom T-Bird 428 C-6
1969 XR7 R/A 428cj 4-spd (project)

...currently, it's 250 miles away from here.

One thing our Tbirds have that's unique, is the carb. pad angle. They're flat! (as opposed to the angled carb pads on all of the other FE intake manifolds.) Could this possibly affect the hood clearance issue with aftermarket intakes?

How do the RPM/ PI/ CJ/ Streetmaster height manifolds fit in the '66? Air cleaner change? I haven't decided for sure, but I'm probably going to put one of my stroker 427's in the 428 car, or stroke the 428- intake looks like the only problem- even considering an EFI kit. I also have a Port-O-Sonic, which looks a little shorter than the others

Richard.

now that we have a small crew signed up for "The Legion" We may be able to resolve some unknown variables. First off, we need to figure out what stock clearance is for 64/65 and 66. I think the 66 has less clearance because the dome is lower up front where the issue seems to be. My own car is useless for a baseline as its been tweaked in several different directions for header and trans issues. I've frankly lost track of it all.



I can tell you that the RPM was too tight. The hood required a re-paint after the initial attempt thanks to the air cleaner stud. A corvette air cleaner worked though. Looked odd and needed mods to clear everything. Much wasted $$$$ and time. So we can assume perhaps that PI's and CJ's might have similar issues. BUT, I did get a 3x2 t-bird set up with 1" spacers under there. I ended up milling 3/8" off the spacers because I was in the hood liner at the front lip of the air cleaner. Maybe 1/8"-1/4" from disaster. It still touches slightly, just enough to make me polish the air cleaner lid all the time. I am using the 2" element or it might be 1-3/4". Cars 3000 miles away so I can't check. This is what I know so far. My motor is shimmed a little but not much.



I would like to know if a 2x4 low riser would fit. If it would, that would probably be the performance ticket based on what we know around here thanks to Jay's testing. And it would look great. The question is would the thin element handle enough volume for a big stroker motor anyway?3x2 is fun but the set up is unstable IMO due to the heat cycling under the hood. It gets ridiculously hot under the hood with headers etc. That is another significant issues that needs to be addressed if you are going for a high output motor and want to drive it around town. I have a modest motor and it cooks stuff including the hood paint with a thermal barrier on it. Parking it hot and getting rained on can ruin your day. I have some ideas on this possibly. By the way, I have no cooling issues at all.



We all want more but doesn't it take 600hp to get a 45-4800lb car into the low 12's anyway? And the opportunity to break stuff that is much harder to r&r makes it even more exiting. Doesn't keep The Legionnaires from dreaming though.



Mark

1965 Custom T-Bird 428 C-6

1969 XR7 R/A 428cj 4-spd (project)

Yep, the 2x4LR would probably fit, but it's about the only intake I don't have right now LOL. I should lay them all out and take some comparison measurements, could measure from the ends where the manifold sets on the block, to the top of the carb flange. Got an extra 2x4 MR, P.O.S., Gal 3x2, Streetmasters & Street Dominators, PI, CJ, and a Sidewinder. Really wondering about an EFI kit fit to the P.O.S., seems like it's not as tall as the others, but might be an illusion. We did a toy drive show last Sunday, and my '66 was parked next to a (brighter yellow) '65- looked like maybe an inch higher hood at the front of the AC for the '65.
The factory engineering '65 427 'Bird that was around here was pretty legendary for lifting people's feet off the floorboard from a roll, and it was a stock 427-4V. You could hear the solids coming before you could see it. The old guy with the horn rims driving it finished off the package- looked like one of those guys in the control room in "Apollo 13". And it was bright red LOL

Tom P mentioned once that the air cleaner sits about 1/2" further back than the 3x2 does. That would put it into the edge of the cowl/firewall seam on mine. Not a big adjustment but something would need to get cut. I think the Galaxie 3x2 might fit on mine. I have at least 1" at the rear of my air cleaner even with the spacer. Bet someone has tried that so you could find out. The EFI has all the advantages including dealing with the heat problems in the bird. Might be the ticket. Set up a slick looking cold air system and you are there.

Mark

1965 Custom T-Bird 428 C-6
1969 XR7 R/A 428cj 4-spd (project)

...I seem to remember an article on a Tasca Ford '66 Thunderbird that had a 427 swapped in for street duty. The only photo that I can recall however was just the front end, they swapped rectangular headlights in place of the 2 round per side. Anyway, back on topic, does anyone else remember this? Do they have the article and or photo's? If the Tasca Tbird had a flat hood and dual quads, that would answer some questions.

cold air.

Mark

1965 Custom T-Bird 428 C-6
1969 XR7 R/A 428cj 4-spd (project)