Mufflers. Its all about the mufflers. I don't like loud and so I'll be using 3 mufflers on my '62 Galaxie 390. One is a muffler X pipe combination that will be mounted under the trans. I think its a Dyno max maybe. I'll look it up. Then downstream a straight thru round glass pack type about 18 inches long. That, hopefully, will take the objectionable sounds out and make for a nice cruiser without sacrificing power.
They are simply two pipes ran through each other without any consideration for the area at the merge! They would be a COMPLETE BOTTLENECK to any exhaust system! Successful X-pipes have a larger area where they merge to give room for BOTH sides of the exhaust to pass. This muffler forces ALL of the exhaust to travel through the area of ONE pipe!
I'm hoping that the stroker 390 that i'm putting in my Galaxie will not be too loud.
Ed Jenkins
Ford Galaxie Club of America member #3350
1966 Galaxie 500 Convertible built in Chicago Illinois, will have a stroker 390( 429 cid?). 780 Holley?, built C6, Crites Aluminum radiator, and a rust free frame from the south. Work continues.
Here is the 489 with the ProXS. Some growl, and not too quiet when on the go pedal, but when you come off it even slightly, its quiet enough I found some rattles I didnt know I had!
Finished, sounds like it's loud but listen to how the camera pics up the solid lifters as a reference, the car is pretty quiet, both the solids and the exhaust are amplified
Totaly Off Topic, but how do you like that cam. I know Pippin has the same cam in his truck and he seems to like it alot. I was wondering where the power falls off and how it idles?
I tried it with a 427. Geez, the engine runs like a taxi cab. The XE262 might be a good grind for a 352 in a pickup that was going to be used for towing duty. Way too small for a 427 or a 428 IMHO.
1912 Model T Ford touring Salmon (ugh!)
1913 Model T Ford Touring original Black paint
1915 Model T Ford Roadster Black
1915 Model T Ford touring Black of course!
1967 Cougar GT 390 Cardinal Red / Black
1968 Cougar GTE 427 Augusta Green / Saddle http://www.supermotors.net/vehicles/registry/15029/50071-2
I liked it in my truck, BUT i would not use it in a mustang unless
October 21 2008, 5:09 AM
i was trying to make a GT/CJ stock engine with manifolds and a 2.75 to 3.0 gear, LOL. That said, it should be a solid driver. I wonder what RPM he is at in cruise? That cam has peak torque at like 2200 RPM. too much over about 2800 that and it will get loud as its not in its efficient range maybe? I used Walker/Dynomax Super Turbos, not too bad, and would mellow out under cruise.
FPA + heads/headwork + alum intake + 3.50 gear... my cam choices MINIMUM is a 270S, but 282S or 280H even pattern cam would be a simple choice. XE series might be 274 or 284 also,
I do have a 260/270 cam in my engine now, but its a solid lifter on par with the 282S at 0.050 lift.
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1967 FE 390GT engine: 416 CID 233/238* @ 0.050 Solid Lifter w/ 4 spd TL.
1968 GT/CS Mustang. 289/c4
1995 Mercedes e320 I6 DOHC, 216 HP wagon.
2003 Tundra SR5, 4.7 DOHC, 4x4.
Another Galaxie (one day.)
Oh and a Bicycle - daily driver to save gas for the 'F'un 'E'xcursions.
Try the magnaflow turbo muffler, but you will lose some power.
October 20 2008, 6:28 PM
Damn, I was thinking about your exact setup for my 69 428.
You should hear my 67 460 with the 3" magnaflow x-pipe.
It's a bit loud!
But.... the 65 with a 302, 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust all the way out and cheap muffler shop turbo mufflers is very similar in loudness, and that's with a dB meter. Unbelievable!
I don't know how it would perform, but it will be quite, and give you that old muscle car sound. John
1970 Land Cruiser, 351w, NP435
(locked up front and rear)
1965 Galaxie, 428, C6, 3.89 gear,
Detroit locker
1979 Spectra Day Cruiser
stock 350ci Brand X, Mercruiser..53mph on GPS
Nothing wrong with the Magnaflows... However, not all of them are created equal. There are at least two case lengths. The LONGER mufflers are SIGNIFICANTLY quieter. You may even try two mufflers on each side if there's room.
adding the extra weight of a stock cross flow muffler of a CJ style... and designing an electric cut out system after a set of magnaflow style mufflers with turn downs, or close them off and have the stock sound. crazy i know, but considering it.
Headers do add to it some, it all ads up.
Also, do you have an air filter or a factory air cleaner (enclosed element?) A 14-by-3 air filter element makes a ton of noise too.
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1967 FE 390GT engine: 416 CID 233/238* @ 0.050 Solid Lifter w/ 4 spd TL.
1968 GT/CS Mustang. 289/c4
1995 Mercedes e320 I6 DOHC, 216 HP wagon.
2003 Tundra SR5, 4.7 DOHC, 4x4.
Another Galaxie (one day.)
Oh and a Bicycle - daily driver to save gas for the 'F'un 'E'xcursions.
There is a heckuva lot of sound insulation on the car. I am going to try and add some more under the fold down seat and firewall.
Yeah I guess I am getting too old ROTFLMAO
I know I am getting contributing noise from the aluminum rockers. I thought the design of the tri y's might be causing a slightly different pulse or pounding, as opposed to a 4 into 1 collector.
I had not honestly thought about the air filter, good tip.
my galaxie?? too loud? its louder outside than it is inside. i have some video of it in action inside the car, i can post it if youd like to hear it. my combo is a 410 solid cam, stock rockers, .521 lift with 228 duration, 9.5 comp, C1AE ported heads with cj valves and fpa headers, with 2.5 all the way back with a smallish sized h-pipe(something the muffler shop fabbed up) with slight downturns that tuck the exhaust up under the rear bumper, running flowmaster 50 series deltas(their quiter series). i think if you had the exhaust exiting straight out that it would quite it down even more at idle. i can have a conversation at cruise speed, the leaky window seals are louder than the exhaust at cruise. still maintains that nice rumble and sounds really good when ya get on it. and to me as a plus you can actually hear the motor, the exhaust doesnt drown out the motor. heres a link to it again if you need another listen
problem on my 390 PI/'63 F-100 by using '63-'64 cast iron 427 manifolds and 3" SS (321)tubing including a home made 'X' and then Bassani mufflers with a 24" body. Mufflers are right behind the rear pan and then end in 8" stubs pointing back. The manifolds, the 'X', the 3" SS tubing and the mufflers, including their location all play a part in the noise reduction.
KS
in my '67 Stang. I also am running FPAs thru 2 1/2" pipes out the back. It only has 375cubes and isn't an FE but it goes just fine in a 3000# car. I'm running a fairly decent street cam, something like 230/235 on a 105 center so it has a pretty good lope. I originally ran Hooker SuperComps with Magnflows and it was a LOT louder. The Borlas were a huge improvement. They have a much sweeter sound and are a bit more modern sounding. The car is by no means quiet but it has the best sound of any car i've ever owned and is much more bearable than the other combinations i've had.
I wouldn't go with cast manifolds myself though i know experimenting with exh combos can be an expensive PITA. I worked for a muffler guy for a bit 20yrs ago and he used to used what he called "hemi" mufflers on his cars. I guess they were something developed by Mopar back in the 60s.
Oh wait, another option to check are the multi-chamber by-pass mufflers developed for both the Corvettes and 07/08 Mustangs. Those are very quiet under normal operation and flow very well under WOT. Based on what i've heard about those I guess if you want to solve the first time that would be a solution. They are not cheap...
X-pipes are intrinsically quiet. The issue is your pipes are not properly tuned prior to the X-junction. (I'm making this up as I write, but I write what I believe).
The noise issue relates entirely to the unequal length of pipe between your header collectors and your X-pipe. If the length of pipe was equal between your collectors and your X, then you would not really even need a muffler.
I don't know diddly about your FPA collector locations (never seen 'em but I will foolishy guess) and I am guessing the left and right FPA collector flanges do NOT sit the same distance to the rear bumper of the car between the left and right header (please correct me if I am wrong, as I am really just guessing). I suspect you have centrally located the X-pipe because the manufacturer of the pipe never mentioned to you that you must locate the X-pipe an equal distance from each collector (probably because the X-pipe maker didn't know), so you have a long pipe travelling from one header and a short pipe travelling from the other collector. This is bad. Really bad. Bad for noise. Bad for performance.
What you have is a severely untuned exhaust, where the left and right side of the exhaust is noisily competing for pipe volume, not silently neutralizing the need for pipe volume.
Mufflers cannot fix this condition. Caddilac mufflers cannot even fix this untuned condition.
What you need is to tune the pipe length prior to the X-pipe, and anything that happens after the X-crossover just doesn't matter. This may require that the X-pipe is not centered on the driveshaft, but is instead, centered on the pipe length between the collectors and the X-pipe. The X-pipe crossover needs to be equidistant from each cylinder head port, and piping after the X-junction tuning is simply not significant. After the X, you can stick a mufler 1 foot away on one side and 2 foot away on the other and noise will still be the same, it doesn't matter past the X-pipe junction.
I'll stop describing this utterly made-up nonsense here.
I'd like to learn more about your header/pipe setup prior to the X-pipe.
Thanks for the technical detail. It does suggest you've built the exhaust right. I can only guess different mufflers might help, but I know nothing about mufflers and don't intend to study them any time soon, so hopefully the experience of others may help you.
Again, thanks for the info. It gives me new info to ponder.
I wonder what you have in the way of carpet and insulation? Even stock mufflers are loud without any sound damping material on the floor. Before you do anything else to the exhaust be sure the car has something dividing the trunk from the passenger compartment (the seat?) and a trunk mat, and sound damping material on the firewall and floor, in addition to carpet. The headliner also has sound damping material behind it, so if there is no headliner that will add more noise reflection which makes everything seem louder than it is.
1912 Model T Ford touring Salmon (ugh!)
1913 Model T Ford Touring original Black paint
1915 Model T Ford Roadster Black
1915 Model T Ford touring Black of course!
1967 Cougar GT 390 Cardinal Red / Black
1968 Cougar GTE 427 Augusta Green / Saddle http://www.supermotors.net/vehicles/registry/15029/50071-2
I used Delta flowmasters on my 65 LTD and it was 2.5 all the way back. When I first tried them out it was loud----------- then finding out the all the hangers where attached solid to the frame etc. I had him put it back with rubber hangers and it got quiter. Then after some running time (One long trip from Texas to Denver) it really mellowed out. So in my opinion the suet and carbon build up will mellow the sound after time. I"m talking about noise inside the vehicle it still got loud when I got on it from the outside. Nothing sounds better than an FE and mine had 180 degree headers which made it sound like a nascar motor. Good luck
on my '64 Galaxie with 2 1/2" pipes out the back with Flowmaster mufflers on the back(stock location) and it's pretty "noisy" when you keep it up in R's(maybe 3000rpm). Definitely know it's coming, forgetting the blower whine. It's got a mild cam(.531 lift), so at idle it's nice. Can't recall the size of mufflers? Maybe 18" bodies? Can't recall if 40's or 50's?
It's a hot rod..........so I don't fret it.
LarryK
1964 Galaxie 2dr 390/6-71/4spd
1964 Country Sedan Wagon 428/5spd
1969 F100 428/4spd
1967 F100 352/now a 4 spd!
1959 B Model Mack
Here's a few tricks I use: #1 the exhaust must discharge clear of the body envelope
October 21 2008, 8:27 AM
= I found noise does not go like a water hose or shot gun but more like a wide dispersion fan nozzle. If the body shell overlaps the discharge at all then the cars body acts as a drum and the interior drums where as if you have the Ex final termination point clear/
beyond any part of the body shell (bumpers don't count I think) the noise reduction is really great 40-50% easly with just a few inches. Dumping the exhaust down toward the ground or angled out the sides of the trunk/shell just bounces the waves off the ground back up againsr the body shell like a drum. Using simple store bought or custom SS Ex tips that are a larger ID then the pipes seems to help also as I believe so does reverse Ys 1 into 2 style tips (like 390GT Tips). Beware of angle cut tips or at least aim the angle away from the body shell angled valence/angle tip.
When I was deep into obtaining noise control Borla gave me some short slip-in SS hour glass shapped restrictors 2-1/2"x2" and 3"x2-1/2" etc that can be slipped in and held with a sheet metal screw and removed as required. They are good for a good chunk 10-20% of reduction but I don't like doing anything that would restrict flow. Full length repeat FULL LENGTH systems over rear axle to rear help a lot: long length = noise reduction. Don't screw with anything other then Mandrel Bends and SS-JMHO!. My XR1 Borla cost mega $ but any premium mufflers like the straight through rock wool filled Magnaflows in their system should work well. Very much like Borlas they are just not XR1s which are cost is no object #1
The mounting the entire Ex system with the floating pins in figure 8 rubber doughnuts helps big time.
Noise is a Cop Magnet and just wears you out being in the car with it. I found on my dirt bike I can actually drive fast much better with full hearing protection then with the straight expansion chamber rattling my brain to hell plus I don't have ringing ears for hours after. The human body has to/will fight the noise and it takes a lot of effort.
I had the Ms drive my Lightning beside me and was surprised I could barely hear it while cruising beside her at 70 with the single Y'd 3" XR-1 Borla MagnaFlow Y'd 3" Pipe no-cats no restrictors aimed 90 degree right out the side behind rear tire. However you stomp it - OMG WICKED
I am even more convinced, after your guy's help, that it definitely is the mufflers. Too bad the camer has taken the sound level way down. Just imagine it 10x louder that the video. You'd be close.
Re: I placed and exhaust video in the photo section
October 21 2008, 8:06 PM
I have a friend that has a 68 Mustang with a stroked 351W, to 393, with the 2.5 inch Magnaflow exhaust. In my opinion it is loud. Loud enough that I am not too sure I want it on my Mach1 with a 428cj.
I have no exp. with this product but have read where people have made similar inserts & have dropped DB levels with no noted loss of power.:
A cam that small is going to limit your initial timing
October 22 2008, 6:12 AM
At low speed, highway rpms in high gear, you get a rumble from the exhaust still burning as it leaves the chamber. I don't know what initial or curve you have but I would be surprised if you could get away with more than 10° without the starter taking a beating. If you cammed it up to where you could get more timing in the rumble would pretty much disappear, around 16°-18° initial with all of your centrifugal in by your cruise speed for 36°-38° at WOT, and some vacuum advance that drops out quickly under load at cruise. All together about 50° at cruise will quiet things down considerably. Have your pipes exiting the body, and makes sure they are floating on rubber mounts. Sound deadening on the floor under the carpet is important. X pipes nearly replace mufflers for quiet, so i think you are reaching a resonance from the exhaust burning in the port.
If I bump my 390 in my truck back to 12° initial it gets this ungodly hum at idle up to 1800. I am running 18° and its gone. Just some thoughts.
