Hello,
My wife and I are building a 390 for our Galaxie project and we would like some opinions on what would be some good head casting numbers to look for, and how hard they are to find. I have a set that are C7AE-A. Are these any good? They were re-done sometime ago and never installed.
Thanks
It depends!
On a bone stock 390 the c7ae-a are just fine, especially if they are re-done and free it would make sense to run them.
Even if you added an alum intake and carb, these heads still wouldn't hurt it. If you added a cam and headers too, then the heads would be the limiting factor, but then there's a whole range of castings or new alum heads to get or re-work.
So it depends on the car/engine/etc - can you describe?
It's going into a 70 Galaxie. I'll be running an aluminum intake, headers and a mild cam. 2.75 gears, C6 auto. It'll just be for some road trips and car shows..maybe a lil horse play from time to time lol.
Although there are many different casting numbers, there is not a clearly bad choice among FE heads. The earlier heads have larger ports that work well in high RPM/high HP engines when ported, but the later heads have more modern combustion chamber design and high velocity/lower volume ports that work nicely for making torque. Those heads will work fine with a small cam and stock gears. You might get some additional power if they were lightly ported, but it's probably not worth the cost.
Make sure to invest in new valve springs if the rebuilder used the stock ones--the stock springs can break if you put a higher lift cam on them after they have lots of miles on them.
If you are able, clean up the roof of the exhaust ports, just make sure they dont mismatch your headers (1-3/4 headers at the most would work best). Even that is not essential but it would add 5hp or so.
With that tall 2.75 gear I'd use a 204/214 duration cam, even the Crower 270hdp (210/220 dur) would be too big, my opinion. The 204/214 or even a 194/204 (Edel performer cam) would work best.
You should have a solid 320-330hp and a good family cruiser, manageable even in the winter.
Ok..sounds good all around. I'll post some pics of the heads, and maybe you can tell me whats been done to them. The spring retainers and caps are kind of strange looking, as they don't look like a regular one does. The caps, for a lack of a better term, are only on the exhaust valves. Also, what was a stock cam's specs as compared to the ones you've described here? I'd like it to have a little bit of a lope but not a lot as this car has a lot of vacuum accesories.(ie; hideaway headlights)
This message has been edited by bcuz1998 on Oct 15, 2008 3:41 PM This message has been edited by bcuz1998 on Oct 15, 2008 3:40 PM
So the In and Ex valve springs are different length, too. That may complicate the issues of higher lift (coil bind) and getting new springs (not all same length).
If you have extra 2-piece retainers (the kind on the intakes) I'd use those, then check installed height but it should put all the installed heights about the same.
Above 5000, the 1-piece retainers are better, about $60 a set or so. If you have to buy em, get these. Get new keepers too.
Durations at .050" lobe for hydraulic cams:
The stock 390 cams were about 186-186 duration early, then 192-192 or 196-196 or 192-197 or I've heard as high as 200-200 but I've never measured a stock 390 cam that big.
The 390gt/428cj was about 206-220, the c8ax-c, later 429cj was about 216-228, these have more lope as does the Crower hdp270 at 210-220, but these won't be as fast in a 2.75 geared Galaxie.
If you want lope, I often listen to a car I like, then ask the owner what cam is in it. Lope will be slower, and take a lot longer to warm up on cold days, but I gotta admit they sound good, why else do we build these old FE Galaxies anyway???
in my book, 100# to 105# seat is min, maybe 250 to 300 open for the mild cams, 135 seat and 350 open for solid lifter..., but call comp cams or crane and get the spring spec you need for your cam. Summit can help also.
Talk to your machinist (who will give those old heads a good valve job and hardened exhaust seats about what you may need also. He can check for loose guides too.
PS Bruce, email me if you need a good 2v cam to meet Werby's recommendation, I think i have the perfect Clevite cam to match that rear end. Its new, I will sell cheap. its a 197/207 degree 2V cam, so that is one step over the smallest stock cam, good basic Galaxie 390 camshaft. and with that cam, maybe stock 90 pounds on the seat is fine. Don't need to make it too tight for no reason. Werby, opinions on springs for this application?
(cavepainting@hotmail.com)
PSS I h ad a stock 2.75 geared Galaxie, and it has 235/75 rear tires and got 17.7 MPG with a 4300 or a rochester (i cant remember) spread bore carb on it all day long.
************************************
1967 FE 390GT engine: 416 CID 233/238* @ 0.050 Solid Lifter w/ 4 spd TL.
1968 GT/CS Mustang. 289/c4
1995 Mercedes e320 I6 DOHC, 216 HP wagon.
2003 Tundra SR5, 4.7 DOHC, 4x4.
Another Galaxie (one day.)
Oh and a Bicycle - daily driver to save gas for the 'F'un 'E'xcursions.
This message has been edited by TorinoBP88 on Oct 15, 2008 8:42 PM This message has been edited by TorinoBP88 on Oct 15, 2008 8:39 PM This message has been edited by TorinoBP88 on Oct 15, 2008 8:38 PM This message has been edited by TorinoBP88 on Oct 15, 2008 8:36 PM
Sure, even stock early/damper springs fine with that one
October 15 2008, 10:51 PM
I've run the Crower hdp270 and the stockers with stock early damper springs, that is about 80 lb seat and 220-240 nose and it is fine to 5000 - 2 pc retainers too. Pippin, the cam you mention would not give a lope but would be ideal, the 197-207 sounds a bit high, our 2v Ford cam is 192-197, did you measure that 197-207, which cam is it????
Anyway, it would be ideal in a 2.75 Galaxie. We also get about 17mpg highway with a similar cam and 3.00 gear, it is pretty nice to get that crusing down the road (without a $2000 lockup 4spd auto!) and still get into the 15's and then drive the two-metric-ton monster home at 17mpg.
I guess hardened seats are ok in the later heads, I wouldn't put em in the c4ae-g and previous heads any more due to the lack of all-around support. Dropping one seat was enough for me. I'd just do it without hardened seats, then if they ever pound in, solve it with CJ valves.
Good point on the seats, i forgot about how some hads dont
October 16 2008, 6:38 AM
support the seat well, i have one set of those C4's actually.
No my small cam will NOT have ANY lope it is a 114 separation angle. It is a 1970's or 1980's Clevite 2V i believe grind, not factory 2v ford, its is 197/207 with .433 intake and .422 exhaust im almost positive... i can look at my notes some time to confirm, i did stick it in the engine and measure it, measured it three time to be sure.
If he wants some lope but still have torque, how about an Iskendarian 256 tight lobe center RV cam, i remember that cam dies hard after 4500 RPM, but made a tone of torque at 1800. still might not give quite the gas mileage of a stocker style cam at low rpm due to the increased overlap. I do think the stocker is better in the 800 to 2500 RPM range which is were the gas mileage is.
Crower also has the 16236 (246H, smaller) and 16237 (250H, bigger for 390/428) which are very similar to my gind, rated from idle to 4000 rpm.
# Grind No./Type 256-SUPERCAM HYDRAULIC Best torque & economy in passenger cars & trucks. Max compr. 9.5
# 1 smooth idle std. axle ratio good vacuum computer compatible. Std. to 600 CFM Carb. RPM-Range
# 1500-4800 Valve Lift - INT
# .492
Click on product above for more information (Timing Chart & Related Products)
CAM TYPE: HYDRAULIC
PRODUCT USE: STREET
View timing chart data (details on this part)
Manufacturer:
Part#: 351256
*********************
Crower Cams, PDF cataloge page 91.
Lots of great information..thanks!
We planned on running an aluminum 4 barrel intake and carb on this set up as well. Nothing really extreme, maybe an Edlebrock set-up. Does anyone make a 2V aluminum intake? All I have are 4V iron ones. We're also going to be using a set of FPA headers that are 1 3/4" tubes, which are supposed to fit the chassis. That was one of my biggest problems...finding FE headers that fit the 70 Galaxie chassis without having to use a whip and chair to get them into the engine bay! lol From the pics it does look like the valves are different heights, but I tapped on the valves the see which ones stick, and the exhaust valves all do. They were exposed to the elements and had paper towel stuffed into the exhaust ports, so they'll get torn apart and cleaned up.
I don't forsee the engine going much past 5000 rpm. If I recall years ago with this same car, I think it cruised at 80mph at about 4000 rpm. That was with 235-75 15"s.
Yes, the sound is what I'm really loking forward to! I told my wife it would be really nice cruising out on the freeway in the cooler evenings next summer...windows down...listening to those headers singing. lol
Not many FE's around these parts to compare to. Most everyone here in the street rods are running Chebbie or gone to the stroker kits on their Fords. Any other FE's are in farm trucks or sitting on the ground.
The heads I pulled off the motor: One side was a truck..D2TE and the other was a C7AE. On both heads, 2 of the exhaust valves had sank thru the seats. It still ran like a watch tho. lol
I'm going to do some calling around today and see about locating a machine shop. There used to be one about 20 miles away, but not sure if they're still open. Otherwise, it's about 200 miles at the minimum from here in BFE.lol Anyone ever made an economical hot tank?
Two things, Math RPM is not correct and alum intake:
October 16 2008, 9:48 PM
First on the alum intake, if your car is a 2.75 rear gear, then the only intake for your needs is the edelbrock performer, but the performance IS EXACTLY THE SAME as a stock 2v or 4v intake, which are both close in performance on your engine. Unless you want to save 60 pounds (which is not a bad thing) just run the iron intake you have and save your $$!!!!!!!!!!!! 4v is OK if that is what you have, just use a smaller edelbrock 600 cfm or stock autolite 4300 carb for gas mileage. If you have a 2v, that is ok too, use the 2v autolite carb, they run great.
Now on RPM vs speed, your memory must be way off. I suggest you go out and actually count your rear end gear again and post the results there. a 235/75-15 tire is 28.5 to 28.9 inches tall, with a 1:1 trans and a 2.75:1 rear end, these are your RPM vs speeds: You should be at 2600 on the HWY!:
