Well today was a LONG day. 38' Commander hauled out for props, shafts, and paint.
July 7 2006 at 8:08 PM
Paul (no login)
Long day. Got up very early, drove out to the truck rental place, picked up this Ottawa yard truck powered by a Cummins diesel and automatic transmission. Something like 7.14 gearing, wouldn't go faster than 40-mph. Bobtail, no springs on the back, but ohhhh brother, would it pull. We idled up the ramp with the boat, no problem. Got it pressure washed down, blocked, and now the fun begins tomorrow. I'll post some pics later tonight.
regards, Paul
FXA 38 3004 R
This message has been edited by FEfinaticP on Jul 19, 2006 11:04 AM
Photos (TRADITION gets hauled for new props and bottom paint)
July 7 2006, 9:25 PM
Im changing out the shafts and cutlass bearings too, and will swap out a new transducer.
Well here's what the big problem was. I assembled all my parts, got the props, got the shaft stock in town, yadda yadda, and then I am informed the truck is broken. "The truck" is the red one on the left. It's a dual axle highway rig never really suited for this kind of work, and "someone" broke one of the axles. It is still drivable, and can launch, but it can't pull. So this brings truck number two into the picture (the white "yard dog" on the right).
I picked it up this morning, we pulled the red truck out, backed the white one in, drove the lift back into the water, pulled the ole Commander into the lift, and bingo!
Here's a photo of your forum moderator at the wheel of the yard dog. This thing wouldn't go over 40 mph, but it was rated to pull 85,000 pounds. It pulled the Commander with very much ease, and never broke into a sweat.
Once the boat was hauled and put into position on the yard, we disconnected the white truck, and put the red one back onto the lift. The white truck was then driven back to the rental location. It's like a bucking bronco, no rear springs! Here we are posing by the red truck, relatively pleased with ourselves so far!
You just can't find good help these days, and that's why having a Dad who is also an avid Commander boater (31 Sedan) really helps! Turn the guy loose with a power washer and things get done fast!
I think he was having so much fun, I would have had to pry that power washer out of his hands, and that's a lot easier said than done! That's Dr. Robert Pletcher, Phd, 31 Commander owner, and my Dad! This is the guy who got me started in boating!
And now the fun begins. Tomorrow morning bright and early, I'll start the sanding process, and will hopefully remove the props and shafts. At some point I'll start in on those pesky cutlass bearings too. I need to be back in the water for next week-end, and I'm anxious to try those big 4-blade props!
Regards, every bone in my body is sore right now, worked on the boat until 10PM, but hey, things could be worse!
I think there is an age where they will appreciate the boat, but may take it for granted. At 19 and 21 there are so many distractions and things to learn, etc. The first thing I did when I got out of college, was to buy my first wood speedboat. One summer I went on 50 trailer trips to the lake, a buddy and I were even out in the middle of the winter with our goose down coats on. Once you get the boating bug, you have it forever.
Those boys of yours are very lucky mom and dad are on the water in such style! I'm sure they love it, and will remember their days on the water forever.
Although I greatly appreciate the help from my dad, he is only too willing to help his son, I hope to see him motoring out of the harbor in his 31 today. The rest of the work I have to do is not really all that difficult now that we have the bottom pressure washed.
I hope you are taking the boys with you on your upcoming cruise! Would be a great family event at this time of their lives.
Best of luck with the sanding. I don't think I would tackle that job in the middle of July. You gotta do what ya gotta do though. I suggest the best respirator money can buy for your health and a BIG ASS FAN for comfort. Most of all, an icy cooler full of your favorite, foamy pop for the end of the day. What are plans for shaft logs? Dripless? C
I had scheduled this lots earlier but had to wait for the darn truck, and then someone jumped in front of me. No problem, here in Tennessee we generally take things pretty friendly. It actually worked to my benefit because we're having an unusual cool spell and the sanding device I use will get this done very quickly! No need to prolong the agony!
If the new shafts can be measured and turned quickly, I'll be back in operation next week.
Your comments about the fan are well appreciated. I do have the best respirator money can buy, organic filters, and eye protection because no need to ingest any of that antifoulant bad stuff coming off. As for the beverages, the refrigerator on the boat is running and well stocked!
Well I'm making progress, but the heat is making things tough. My energy level can go for hours but then drops off like jumping off a ledge. I barely had enough energy left to clean my tools up today, worked from around 9:00 or so to 3:00 and made a lot of progress on a variety of things, but just couldn't go any more due to the heat. Its not all that hot, except it's "hot" when you're out trying to do physical work.
50-grit on a random orbital 5" sander really takes off the old paint, nasty job but it has to be done.
I may go back later this eve and undo the flange bolts on the prop shafts. I want to take one in to the machine shop and tell them "make me two just like this one". Got my stainless steel stock in, just waiting to get one off to be sure we get them right.
Sanding in progress, and a little patching with industrial epoxy as required.
The absolute JOY of pulling a prop! Have you EVER seen a guy having so much fun pulling a prop? This is my very good friend, Dean, and "best man" at our wedding 24 years ago. Nothing like having the right tools for the job, and a friend who shows up with them in his truck!
The work scene, with the hull slowly taking shape. You can see the old props in the background.
Time for a nap!
Regards, Paul
FXA 38 3004 R
This message has been edited by FEfinaticP on Jul 12, 2006 10:32 AM
Interesting looking puller that Dean is using. If possible, could you post a more detailed photo. Recently pulled both of mine with an old "Algonac" type that the yard let me borrow as the one I fabricated for the wheels on my 31'just wasn't beefy enough for the task. Thanks and I hope that your project goes smoothly.
Regards,Steve
The prop puller is a three arm (works only for 3-blade props, for the 4-blade props you'll need a two arm job) gear puller. Many auto parts stores have a tool loan program, and in Nashville they make you pay full price for the tool, but when you bring it back they give you ALL your money back!! It's a great program.
We measured the length from tip of shaft to back of prop hub, and it was around 5-1/2" so he brought a puller with a 6" arm. I had heated them up with a torch a bit, not too hot, and then ran some GIBBS BRAND (specialty penetrating oil)on them to loosen things up. First prop came right off with the first tap. Second prop took a few more taps.
The prop puller we used was actually a big (6") gear puller. It looked just like the smaller version shown in the photo below. You can get them at many automotive tool supply houses, give them a deposit, they let you use the tool, bring it back, they generally give you ALL your money back. Amazing!
this one is used for much smaller work, it was of no use on the boat.
Day-3 Hull sanded, copper bronze first coat on, blue accent on, and one shaft out
July 9 2006, 8:49 PM
Sanding was completed yesterday, so today was for paint. Another long day, cool morning allowed lots of painting. I did the copper bronze and my dad put on an expert coat of dark blue (looks almost black in some light, but it will look stunning once we cut in the white waterline stripe again.
Looks like a full moon out there tonight, we worked late, and here are a few photos we took too late to get good ones.
The painting was a non event, lots of work, but it went according to plan. What did not go according to plan was the discovery that one of the shaft hubs apparently had a twisted off set screw in the "full on" position. It was twisted off flush with the body of the hub.
After quite a few attempts that lead nowhere, we finally put an automotive harmonic balance puller onto the hub, secured it, and just muscled the darn thing one small turn at a time. Once things broke loose and started to move, we took a large pipe wrench to the shaft and just lodged a box end wrench onto the bottom of the hull and did the turning with the pipe wrench (shafts are being replaced).
We didn't realize WHY the thing was putting up such a fight, until we looked inside the bore of the finally freed hub and saw the tip of the set screw protrucing ever so slightly. That ever so slightly was enough to make this job last over 1-1/2 hours.
The old shaft goes to the machine shop tomorrow, they'll make two new ones just like it. I'm going to have them clean up the hubs too and pre-fit them to the shafts (a GREAT tip from Todd Heinrich).
Tomorrow eve I'll work on that other hub, remove the packing and get ready for new packing (no dripless, just traditional). I'll also work on the new transducer.
We'll put on another coat of the copper bronze and eventually do the white stripe after things are cured up.
A tip about the waterline. In order to get a good job we had to overlap the dark blue over the old 1-1/2" white waterline, and we also had to overlap some of the copper bronze too. That makes for a squiggley looking waterline in the photos.
In order to get the non stick tape properly installed, before we painted we came down 1" from the top of the waterline and put a reference mark. That way we'll know exactly where to position the non stick tape on the top side and bottm when it comes time to put on the finishing touches.
The copper bottom, white stripe and very dark blue accent is going to look good.
Regards, Paul
This message has been edited by FEfinaticP on Jul 12, 2006 10:33 AM
Is that the commonly referred to "dripless packing"?
Also, "where do I get it"? (I'll call my local supply house and inquire, but just wondered if you had a preferred source.
My starboard shaft was visibly worn at the shaft log area. It was so worn it was probably a total of 1/16" out and you could easily feel it too. At some time in the past the log was apparently very tight and it overheated. Over the last 40 years that big 427 has spun that shaft enough to polish it down quite a bit! Where I thought I'd see wear was at the cutlas bearing, and there is surprisingly little there. I am very anxious to test this shaft for trueness, as now that its out, I am actually hoping it's bent. It's probably the original shaft in the boat.
Paul it is not dripless packing that is a different animal. It is a new type of packing that goes right where your old Flax packing was it is just made from new material Gore Tex! And it is awesome Tim uses it in his boat and I was going to put it in my boat last year when I bought it but I found the remnants of a package of it in the spare parts cabinet in the boat. So I have not changed my packing and when I am running it does not drip I get literally no water in the bilge neither does Tim if I remember right. If you follow the link I left in the previous post I think they show where to buy it at the main site but West Marine does carry it too. Check your local marine supply house they very well may have it.
The shafts are being turned as I write this. They're going to clean up the hubs, and redrill the broken set screw. Getting that hub off the shaft was NOT one of the more fun things I've done lately, ha! (understatement of the year!)
The good news is, there's a chance we'll have it back in the water soon. No need to prolong the agony, right!? Quality work comes with the territory around here, in case anyone is wondering, and that's actually the main reason I like working on the boat myself. When I do it myself, I know exactly what I have.
This evening after work I drove out to the marina with one mission, to get the port hub off the port prop shaft. It took a while but it came off. Here's a photo of one of those heavy iron bad boys.
When these things have been on for many years, they really don't want to come off. There's no way you're going to tap one off with a hammer.
I put GIBBS BRAND specialty penetrating oil on them to provide a little lubrication, and then used a heavy harmonic balancer puller. Here's what the rig looked like assembled. You basically bolt the puller to the flange, and then tighten down on that big center nut and it pushes the shaft out. Easier said than done.
Here's another look at the rig, pretty simple concept. Tighten down real tight, tap with a hammer, tighten some more, tap tap, you get the idea. This one took about an hour, which was a piece of cake compared to the starboard hub we did last night. I did this one alone. Of course there's barely enough room for a guy with medium build to get down there to do the deed, really cramped.
Here's what we thought might do the job (a 3-prong gear puller), but it wouldn't grab well enough and it really wasn't stout enough to do the job even if it did grab. I'm sure I would have broken it.
Here's how it might have worked, but it didn't
We used a giant version of the three-prong gear puller to pull the props and it worked superbly. If we could have gotten a giant 3-prong in the shaft hub location, it might have worked, but the limiting factor is the 6" or less of working clearance you have between the shaft hub and the hub on the aft side of the transmission. As it worked out, the harmonic balancer puller just fit in almost snugly, it was close.
On the eve of day 4, consuming all Day Friday, Saturday until 3:30, generally all of Sunday, and a few hours after work on Monday, we have the following accomplished:
Boat hauled
Bottom sanded
Bottom repaired with industrial epoxy in a few places as required.
Bottom painted copper bronze, and ready for another coat.
Dark blue trim finish painted.
Props off
Both shaft hubs off
Starboard shaft off and at the machine shop as a guide to making new shafts.
Tomorrow after work I'm going to install a new transducer and pull the Port Shaft out (should be relatively easy to do the latter since it's just being held by the cutlass bearing now). We'll probably give the copper bronze another coat of paint, and let it dry a couple three days, before putting the white boot stripe in place. Hopefully we'll be in the water on Saturday or Sunday. If not, soon thereafter.
Paul - It might be to late for this thought but, I have used this type of paint many times. Some brands recommend that you launch before the paint is completly cured. I don't recall the exact details, so just an FYI. C
Thanks for the tip, not necessary to launch before curing with this paint
July 11 2006, 7:29 PM
We're planning on applying the final coat tomorrow, weather permitting. I'm planning on doing a soft top sanding if necessary for cosmetic purposes on all of the top side areas. Naturally I'll have a GOOD respirator and this won't take very long at all.
Copper Bronze is an excellent, general purpose antifouling for boaters deisiring aggressive bottom protection in an easy to apply, cosmeticlaly attractive finish.
This is a hard, modified Cuprous Oxide modified epoxy aggressive antifoulant made specifically in a cosmetically attractive bronze finish. Copper Bronze Antifouling is equally effective in both fresh and salt water and is also ideal for trailered boats. Copper Bronze antifouling is resistant to algae, barnacles, grass, zebra mussles, etc. Compatible with most previously applied antifoulings. Suitable on fiberglass, wood and steel hulls.
Day-5, Transducer installed, strut bearings measured, a little patching done
July 11 2006, 7:37 PM
The Commander hull, where I installed the transducer was about 5/8" thick. I used an existing through hull connection so I did not have to drill. Pretty simple and good install, out of the turbulance and in a spot where it will give good high speed readings. I bedded it in with LIFECAULK.
Mixed a little epoxy and did some final cosmetic patching, will be sanded upon painting tomorrow. I dropped off the second hub at the machine shop so things are moving.
Planning on doing the final Copper Bronze application tomorrow, will let it dry a few days before doing the white boot stripe. Am planning on picking up some new style packing as Mark recommended at lunch tomorrow.
I'll start pulling the old strut bearings out tomorrow if we have time. The color scheme is identical to what Warren used on BAMBI (see photo below, BAMBI being painted in Australia). It's hard to tell with the photo, but my blue may actually be darker than the photo below. In any case it is looking very GOOD !!!
Day-6 Got the port shaft out, a little patching, looked over the strut bearings.
July 13 2006, 8:08 AM
The Starboard shaft came out the other day and was immediately taken to the machine shop where I had stocked some 1-3/8" stainless steel rod, and two new shafts are being made now. The Port shaft hub was removed the other day, and we left the shaft in place until last night. It came out reasonably easy with the use of a pipe wrench rotating the shaft and pulling like the dickens as it rotated. It was a two man job, but with a little WD40 it came out reasonably well. Looking at those strut bearings surprised me, they look fine and tight, but they're being replaced anyway.
We need to do a little more touch up, and put the boot stripe on, and that should be a pretty easy "stand up" job, as the finishing touch.
Strut bearing set screws were heated with a torch, soaked in penetrating oil, tapped with a hammer and out they came easily. Strut bearings look like they have been cut out previously, and it was done properly. The cut is on the TOP SIDE of the strut bearing (closest to the hull) because the inevitable "overcut" into the underwater gear is therefore into the heaviest metal section in the piece, and not the weakest part (on the bottom of the strut bearing housing). Rather than devise the threaded rod technique, I decided to cut them out as prefiously done, and follow the same cut line.
This afternoon I'll pick up some new packing material, and then I guess I could hook up the depth sounder electricals, but the transducer is in now and looking very good. It's the kind that has a point on each end.
If the shafts are done today or tomorrow, I can easily be in the water for the week-end. I'm anxious to try out the new 4-blade props, especially after seeing my favorite boating journalists's (John Clemans) hands on account of 3-blade vs 4-blade in the latest (just released to mail subscribers, August) edition of Motor Boating Magazine. Speeds at certain RPM are actually higher with the 4-blade props which means less fuel consumption and better efficiency, perhaps, but he experienced less top speed. I know the 38 Commander hull is faster than a Bertram, so it will be interesting to compare notes on speed, rpm, planing, vibration, etc.
Dan Green Machine Shop (Thanks Dan and Brian!) PHOTOS
July 13 2006, 12:03 PM
Dan Green Machine Shop here in Nashville, telephone number (615) 297-1932 did the work at a fair price and a day ahead of schedule! They took the time to be extra sure the hubs would fit over the ends of the shafts once they were installed through the hull too, which is VERY important (Todd Heinrich is getting a lot of milage out of his comment to be sure about this, thanks Todd). These people are also VERY easy and good to work with, and I recommend them to anyone needing machine work done.
here's a photo of Brian (left) and Dan Green (right, and owner of the shop), both kind enough to allow me to take these photos for the forum.
These next two photos are doing a final polish on the ends, to be sure they fit the hubs properly. Ends were slightly tapered with a file, everything was checked very carefully. I'm hoping for a good and long lasting installation.
Yes, I now have 4 Commander prop shafts in a small sports car! The two old ones, one of which the shop used for measurements, the other old one came out last night as a non-critical-path move, and of course the two new ones! One of the hubs was milled down on the facing and dressed up, because it looked like someone had taken a hammer to it in the past. This should keep me off the streets for another couple days! Hoping for an optimistic week-end launch.
I've been reading your thread with interest, as I plan to do the same thing later in the season before I put the boat away for the winter. I am especially interested how you like the new props, and I do intend to get the Motor Boating Magazine article you referenced.
Hi Steve, I was cautioned about making shafts in advance, based upon a dimension I may receive from someone, and therefore I took the advice. The shop made my new shafts to the exact size of the old ones, and although 80" seems to ring a bell, I will measure the old ones for you and post it here for the record. I think there was some consistancy in the manufacturing process at CC, and I'm sure they didn't make up custom shaft lengths for each boat.
Check back on this link, give me a day or two, and I'll post the exact dimension of those shafts.
Regards, Paul
FXA 38 3004 R
1966 38 Express
427 power
-----------------------------------------
UPDATE:
As promised, actual measurements were taken. (See the referenced link below)
Note the cautions about this fitting my boat, and not necessarily all Commanders of similar length or age!
How's this for a spooky photo (night time exposure of my work site)
July 13 2006, 12:08 PM
This was taken around 9:30 last eve when I finally decided to call it a day. I actually packed it up and started to leave, but then looked at the clock and realized I still had some significant daylight time left. I tended to some additional issues just to get them out of the way.
It was so dark, I couldn't get a photo, unless I did a time exposure. This image picks up some very strange light. We're lucky we have a place like this to play with our big toys.
As a point of information, I installed those double straps on our lift back when I had a 35' CC Sea Skiff with a fragile hull. Double strapping will handle a hull like an egg, very gently! I also installed those mechanical chain driven hoists, they're rated at 10-tons each, so you can imagine what kind of a safety factor there is! Pretty cool rig to have around when you need one.
I picked up the new shafts this afternoon, and after a very late start after work, finally arrived at the boat at 8:00PM and decided to get the torch out.
First thing I did was to heat up the strut casings around the strut bearings (again) and saturate things down with GIBBS BRAND (specialty penetrating oil, and no, I don't sell the stuff or have any interest in the company! It just works!).
Then I decided to start tapping just to see what happened. Did the Starboard side first and it came out begrudgingly, but hey at least it came out! The Port side, after seeing the fight the Starboard side put up and lost, decided to just throw in the towel and give up, and it came out a lot easier.
Here are photos of the Pors side coming out, and you can see it was pretty dark when it finally came out. I didn't plan on staying that long but having that much fun, time just got away from me and I got home around 10PM after stopping for a sandwich.
Now everything is apart and the re-assembly process begins. Hopefully this will run smooth and fast!
In the last photo you can see the strut bearing has been soaked down with solvent, and it actually "appeared" to be in pretty good condition, however, I suspect the solvent made the rubber swell up a bit and feel more snug than it really was. In cold water a while back, I could wiggle the shaft a bit and that indicated I really needed to replace these things. In any case they're out! I'm going to do an interior hone on the struts themselves, to be sure there is no galling when the new bearings are inserted.
Day-8 Paint touch up at lunch, strut bearing installation, ready for shafts and props
July 14 2006, 8:32 PM
Today at lunchtime I drove to the marina and put on another coat of very fine copper bronze around the vertical section of the hull that's exposed above the water (with a specialty foam roller intended for this purpose). It's looking good. Tomorrow we'll put on the white stripe after the thin finish layer of paint got a chance to cure out in the afternoon heat and tonight.
I then took a phillips head screwdriver inserted into my Makita, wrapped some rubber weatherstripping foam around it, and then a strip of belt sander paper. This is exactly what I use to port aluminum intakes for hot rodding motors, and it worked perfectly for cleaning up the potential galling of the strut bearing insertion. You don't want to take much bronze off, but you also don't want to jam that strut bearing in either.
A little persuasion and they went in nicely
Here's a shot of the strut bearing for the 1-3/8" 38 Commander early series (later series opted for the 1-1/2" shaft.) I didn't find it necessary to go up to the larger shaft, after consultation with Michigan Wheel tech guys, etc., I made the decision to stay with the stock shafts, but replaced them to avoid any metal fatigue issues with old shafts.
Once in place, I took a drill bit and drilled into the brass casing of the strut bearing itself. This allowed the set nut to sit down into the case to avoid rotation, and then I also used locktite to assure it would stay put. Probably unnecessary, but did it anyway.
here's the view of the business end of a Commander 38. As you can see, we have a few touch up issues left, but underwater gear is ready to roll. Shafts and props go in tomorrow.
Tomorrow when it is at it's hottest, I'll drive out to the marind supply shop and pick up some new style cutlass bearing packing, and we'll finish things up when it gets cooler. Looking forward to splashing on Sunday.
regards, Paul
This message has been edited by FEfinaticP on Jul 14, 2006 8:39 PM
I have REALLY enjoyed this thread, Paul, excellent excellent excellent! Many great tips, and a "how to" on many issues. Thank you muchly for taking the time to photograph as you do this work. This is one of many posts here on your forum that have been printed for my 3-ring Commander manual.
Looks like you are spending some time at the marina, huh? This time of year I couldn't do that, way too hot here in Alabama. I suspect this is an early morning and late afternoon project for you. Good luck finishing it up and getting back on the water. I have basically been there done that, except for the shaft changeout. Interesting documentation, thanks for the pics!
........we couldn't go any longer than 3:30. In this weather it just keeps getting hotter and hotter and it really takes it out of me after several hours. More fun in the morning when it's cool!
Some people say “you just can’t find good help these days”, but it’s out there if you know where to find it!
This guy (my Dad) is a good guy to have around when it’s time to paint! He can put down a coat of paint and make it look like it’s been sprayed at the factory.
We had a lot of fun today putting on the boot stripe, and installing the shafts. The heat was so ##*@!!~~#* hot today we had to call it a day around 3:30 but that’s all we needed to finish up all the cosmetic work. Now it’s reassembly of hubs, packing, props and we’re easily ready to splash tomorrow. I think I’ll actually wait until Monday just because the launching ramp is so busy on week-ends. I’ll sneak out in the morning and we’ll launch in comfortable weather. At least that’s the plan.
Here are the photos I took today.
Boot Stripe Tip of the Week !! If you’re going to do a repaint like I did, and your stripe is straight and true and you like it. Here’s the best way I know to get it back right like it was before. For this example I’ll use the dimensions of my stripe, which is a 1-1/2” stripe. Measure down 1” and put reference marks with a marker that won’t bleed through the white paint. Do this at intervals of about 3 or 4 feet all around the boat. That way when you install new blue paint above the line, as we did, which requires an overlap of the old waterline boot stripe………………..and when you lay on that copper bronze and overlap part of the boot stripe, you’ll be able to use that reference mark to place your easy-lift tape exactly where it has to go. I made up a card with an arrow at the 1” mark so all I had to do was place the card on the reference mark, place the new tape at the top of the card, and the bottom tape went at the ½” mark below the reference mark. I hope you get the idea, it worked great. See results below.
Here’s my helper taking a break. As you can see we’ve got the tape in place and the first coat of white Interlux Polyurethane put down. Two coats were put on with a specialty foam roller intended for this kind of paint. At first we were concerned about all the bubbles that appeared on roll out, but they soon disappeared and the paint flashed out nicely.
Here we’re removing the tape. The blue has been on for a few days, and that last coat of copper went on a day ago. The easy-removal striping tape worked great. We actually removed one line of tape at a time, very carefully.
After the tape was removed, naturally there were some areas where the white bled up or down into the blue or copper. This is where an expert painter comes in to play! Attention to detail makes the product look a LOT better.
Here’s the boat with the cosmetic work essentially done. I’m pleased with the color combination, it’s closer to stock but still with a little bit of a custom flair. The Interlux dark blue we used looks almost black in some light, but it is clearly a blue, and looks great.
The new shafts went right on in with a little soapy water. Strut bearings are nice and tight. Because it was so hot today, I decided to kick back and take a break this afternoon and hit it again at sunrise when it’s so nice out. I’m looking forward to getting everything bolted back together and giving those 4-blades a whirl.
Regards, Paul
FXA 38 3004 R
1966 38 Commander
Original 427 power
Boot Stripe Paint Color - Interlux #4316 Dark Blue
Bill Bassler of the CCABC asked me about the boot stripe color for the Commander series, and I thought I'd post the info here too. THe Essential Guide indicates "black" is the "proper color" for an original boot stripe. I selected the darkest blue I could find that would still read "blue", just as a personal preference.
This is "the can" of paint used to paint the boot stripe. You can see where it is smudged lightly it shows the blue, but where the paint is thicker it looks very dark, indeed, even in the illumination of the photo. This is an Interlux product, which I find to be a spectacular line of paints for wood or fiberglass use!
Regards, Paul
This message has been edited by FEfinaticP on Feb 2, 2007 11:44 PM
These photos were taken Sunday, a week and 3 days after we hauled the boat.
The big 4-blade props fitted and ready to feel the torque of a 427.
Working on a boat like this is a series of obstacles to overcome, here's one. It's sorta bent. The other one was sorta bent too. I put them back to back, ran a long bolt through each side, and tightened it down carefully and straightening both pieces at once. Of course, things may have gone badly, I was very careful and on this occasion the plan worked, thankfully. Looks like the previous owner didn't understand what blankety-blank packing was for!!
And here's where the major work of the afternoon really occurred, IN FRONT OF THE FAN (at nearly 100-degrees F)
When the going gets tough, the tough get going. In front of the fan, it really was tolerable. I took my time and got everything perfectly assembled. I also did a little engine alignment, but will re-do that once the boat is in the water for a while.
Tomorrow (Monday) well launch, because there are just too many people around here today, and I'm not really in a hurry.
This morning I drove out to Scott Brothers Bolt and Screw, picked up some stainless cutlass bearing set screws. Then I drove to Capitol City Bolt and Screw to get some new hub set bolts to keep the shafts from backing out in reverse, and new hub bolts.
Shortly after I got to the boat, we fired up the diesel truck and backed er into the water. Sure was sweet firing up the motors and feeling those new props for the first time. I drove over to the gas dock and took on $450 worth of fuel (ouch!). Thankfully we get a 25% discount at our club, and it's true marine 93 octane.
Here I am a few hours ago about to hose down the boat. It got dirty out there in the parking lot. I can't even think how many times I went up and down the darn ladder.
And then I couldn't resist. Out I went alone for a speed run. VERY IMPRESSED with the props. I notice a lot of difference. Very smooth, up on a plane with little effort. John Clemans wrote an article in Motor Boating August edition, just released to mail subscribers, about 3 vs 4-blade. His test was done on a Bertram deep V, and the 38 Commander is a much faster (almost 10-mph) hull. His results were higher speed at the same rpm in the midrange. In otherwords, at 2000 rpm he was going faster with 4 blade than he was at 2000 rpm and 3 blade. Naturally the 4-blade during the test was one inch less pitch, according to routine.
I didn't do any top speed runs, but I'm not interested in ultimate top speed. I do really appreciate the smoothness, and I can get them better with more engine alignment adjustment. I like the way the boat effortlessly moves with a touch of the throttles now, and backing into the slip seemed to be with a little more control too. My over impression, I like em a lot.
This project cost estimates:
New props roughly $1000 each
New shafts $600 each
New strut bearings $100 each
Hub machining $70
Copper Bronze $190 per gal (two gal used).
Misc Interlux paint and thinner, rollers, brushes $100
Misc bolts $20
Truck rental (due to broken axle at our club truck) $125
Tips and beer for my buddies $100
Tool rental and other misc "stuff" $50
Total "approx" $4245
Had I had this done in a shop, including having them buy the props and shafts, etc., and do all labor, I have NO DOUBT the invoice would have around $9000. I also don't think the work would have been as well done, either. Being able to do it yourself is not only a lot of fun and satisfaction, you are getting the job as well as you chose to do it. The buck stops with you!
This has been enjoyable, but we couldn't really kick back and savor the fact that we were at the marina working on a Commander too much. The problem was the nearly 100-degree heat. As a result, I drank lots of Gatorade, beer, and water, not necessarily in that order, and I physically could not work the whole day. Around 3:30 it just got so hot it was like jumping off a cliff.
Why did I do this in July? Well those props were ordered a LONG time ago, they arrived and I had a lot of social and work obligations, and another guy got in front of me on the boat ramp, etc., and as a result when the opportunity finally came, I just took it.
Glad to be back on the water!
Regards, Paul
FXA 38 3004 R
Original 427 power
This message has been edited by FEfinaticP on Jul 17, 2006 7:02 PM
This one is also in my 3-ring binder for future reference, nice work for sure! I've been vicariously doing this work by reading your thread here, but not in July!
The hull job you did looks great, and I am looking forward to more observations onteh 4 blade propellers too.
Thanks for taking the time to document all of this, really great info.
Congratulaions on this project turning out so successful! It would have been really crummy if after all that you couldn't tell the difference between the 3 and 4 blade props. Sounds like they are really a winner, and now you know exactly what you have aft of the trannies.
As to cost, you would have had to pull the boat for hull painting sooner or later anyway, so the truck rental and hull cleaning/paint work can all be chalked up to that part of the work, making the new shafts and props a lot cheaper!
Best wishes,
Curt....
1967 fiberglass 38' Chris Craft Commander Sportfisher with twin 427 CID 300 HP engines.
Out and back in over 11 days with all that work done. Way to go! You obviously have not been sitting around. I doubt if you could have had it done any faster commercially, and as you suggested, the quality of the work would have run the risk of not being as good.
CONGRATULATIONS ! I also appreciate the fact that you took the time to document the project like this.
I'm sure glad to be out of the heat today! Glad to get this one over with, becuase there's another (non-boating) project awaiting in the wings! Somehow the next one doesn't seem as big a deal as this one!
Here are some photos I just received today, showing our private little club's launching equipment. It's really sweet when you can come down to the club and have the whole place to yourself!
Here's the launching crew. You mess with these guys and you could be hog tied and painted copper bronze before you know what happened, ha! Yours truely (left), my Dad (center) and Bill French (right). Are these guys having fun or what!?? What a team!
And we're off, with Bill French at the wheel of the truck (note: this truck is capable of launching, but it's not able to haul out any more. The club is about to replace the truck with a new one!)
It was a wild ride, I was in the boat!
Here's the business end of a Commander right before it got those props wet for the very first time.
Almost wet!
And she's in! Just a little adjustment on the chain hoists to free the straps and we're out of here!
Taking a much needed Gatorade break in the nearly 100-degree heat.
That's my mother who was looking after me, thankfully! She later brought me some food and we ate there on the docks in the shade.
Here I am doing a few last minute adjustments and clean up before going out on the shakedown cruise.
The joys of a private country backwater marina!
Regards, Paul
This message has been edited by FEfinaticP on Jul 6, 2008 9:41 AM This message has been edited by FEfinaticP on Jul 19, 2006 3:39 PM
I appreciate the kind words. It's a lot of fun being able to share information like this with many others, because I know it is of some value or interest to them. I also appreciate the fact that you've shared so much here too.
Hello Paul - I believe you installed the special Gore packing material in your Commander when you changed out the shafts and props. What size did you use? I saw a thread devoted to a follow-up on the props but I've not noticed one on the packing. Did you in fact use this product and if so how is it working out? I'm going to change out the packing on my Connie prior to launch this spring and I might like to try that. thanks, roberts
I think the Constellation you have probably takes the same packing our Commanders take, but it's not a sure thing. I don't know what length your Constellation is, what power, what shaft size, etc., so it's not a sure thing.
I didn't know what size to use when I did mine. I purchased what I thought would work, so I got a couple 1/4" packets and a couple 3/16" packets, and once the packing cap was removed it became pretty clear to me that the 3/16" would be the best choice for my particular 38 Commander with the 1-3/8" shafts. I used a long flat blade screwdriver to gently press it around the shaft and down the packing gland, and then I tamped it down by hand with the cap before tightening up the cap. (I then returned the packing size I didn't use).
I used the TefPack synthetic braided yarn packing that was saturated with Teflon. It's available at West Marine for about nine bucks for a 24" long section, which will do two shafts.
West also has a Flax shaft packing that is also able to use Teflon (supplied in it's own container. Either one would work great, as I think the Teflon is the magic ingredient.
Send us some info on your Connie, they're great boats!
Hello Paul - Thanks for the info about the Teflon Packing you used. I had hoped you tried the Gore product as in the post because I'm curious of it. You mentioned I might want to provide a few details about my boat. She is a 1963 37' CC Constellation Hardtop Express designed by A.W. "Mac" MacKerer. Power is twin 454ci 350hp Chevrolet/Crusaders of 350hp each. Shafts are 1 3/8" SS with the 3-blade props as you used to have in your Commander. Marine gears are the P44 Paragons. She weighs 16000# and tops out at 4300 rpms and 34mph according to the GPS. Our cruising grounds are the eastern shore of Lake Michigan not far from the Holland, MI plant where she was built. Regards, Roberts
I've always liked the Constellation line. They've always been the "flagship" of the Chris Craft line, in my mind anyway. They always got the good hardware, good power, good appointments, etc., while the Cavalier and Sea Skiff lines got less expensive woodwork and hardware. Is the cabin top on the 37 fiberglass or wood construction wrapped in vinyl. Just curious if CC used any glass on the boat.
I had a buddy a few years ago with a larger model, not sure which model or size, but I was sure about the power. It's the first 427 powered cruiser I ever rode on, and it was a fast one! Yours at 34 is not going to be embarassed by much of anything on the water. Chris Craft always saw that the Constellation had good engine options.
Glad to have you aboard, feel free to post info and questions about your boat or the other CC models.
Paul, Yes the cabin top is mostly FRP, with a vinyl over plywood section down the center. The hardtop over the helm is FRP. I'm told CC started experimenting with FRP on cruisers in about 1960 on the Connies.
I'm planning doing the exact same thing before launching this spring
March 16 2007, 10:22 AM
This thread is a nice "how to", and it lets me get re-acquainted with the bottom of the boat. I'm planning on doing the repainting and strut bearing replacement (no new shafts or props this year).
If memory serves me, the boat will take about 1-1/2 gal of bottom paint with two layers of coating.
Here in the South we keep our boats in the water all year long, and the season really never ends or starts again, the weather just gets warmer or colder. For you guys in the North who haul your boats each season, of course, this is something you'll want to do before launching for the season; that way you can enjoy the benefits of your work during the season.
Since TRADITION has been in the water for years, we only haul her when necessary to do so, and we did so last July in order to tend to bottom painting and vibration in the drivetrain. Paint and bottom were in excellent condition, by the way, and it didn't take much to prep for new paint.
I made the mistake of waiting too long to schedule my haul out, and I had to wait for another guy to get his work done first. He took his good ole time too, arrgghhh!
When the lift was finally available on a "non emergency" basis, it was mid July, and I'm here to tell you, that was the hottest bling blang weather I've ever worked in. It was so hot, in fact, that I couldn't work past 3:00 on some days, because it kept getting hotter and I kept getting weaker due to the energy being expended. The heat has a way of sapping your strength over time, no matter how fit you may be.
Good luck on your work, take some photos and send em in!
I sent you my phone number,if you get a chance please give me a call. If you'll email me yours I'll give you a call. I'd like to discuss some of the issues off line.
