I was getting ready to install a new charger converter today, and found I had no 120vAC power to the old charger. So I traced the 120v wiring back to a switch marked "Rectifier". That junction box had the wrong kind of switch in it. I fixed that and still no power. Traced it to the breaker box, and found that it looked to be hooked up OK (hot to a breaker, neutral to the neutral bus). But no power was coming through the breaker.

I checked the continuity of the breaker and it was good so it should have been feeding the circuit. I then noticed that whoever wired this thing only wired the incoming shore power to one of the two legs in the main breaker box. It is a box normally used for 240v power (like your home), but since most boat shore power is on 120v, the two legs of the breaker box must have been jumpered together -- if not, only every other breaker will get power. I was wondering why I had so many 120v circuits not working. I added the needed jumper and now all kinds of things are working that didn't before (like the stove and refrigerator for example).

I will still be going through all of the 120v wiring as there is a lot of things wrong -- the guy who wired it was obviously not an electrician and for the most part didn't have a clue. For example I found several things redundantly breakered (fed from a breaker in the main box through another breaker in a sub box). I found several circuits where he had switched the white neutral wire (a total no-no), and some outlets where he had the neutral and hot wires reversed.

But it was exciting to find the main problem with all the dead circuits was just a jumper that was never installed. After getting that fixed, I figured out what each of the 7 breakers does, and made a chart documenting that.

This work derailed me from getting my new charger/converter installed, but it was worth it. So tomorrow I'll get back to work on the 12v system.

I did get a bunch of the old stuff ripped out today -- I pulled out the 20 charger, two solenoids, and the diode style battery isolator (the blue thing that you see at the top of this picture):


I will be putting in a modern 60 amp switching power supply/charger with a microprocessor controller that does smart 3-stage charging (so you can leave the thing on 100% of the time when on shorepower without overcharging the batteries or boiling off the electrolyte). The single charger will charge both battery banks through a West Marine battery combiner, which is a voltage sensing relay that hooks the two batteries together when there is a charging voltage exceeding 13.3 volts. When no charging voltage is present, the combiner isolates the two battery banks.

Those diode-based battery isolators like the one I ripped out are not really that great -- you loose about 0.7 volts through them. That doesn't sound like much, but it really is in a charging circuit. For example, that would knock your charging voltage from around say 14.4v to about 13.7 volts -- and that GREATLY cuts the charging current and extends your charging time significantly.

Best wishes, Curt....

I got a really good battery charger/maintainer that would run on a programmed setting, and would once in a while actually overcharge the battery bank to keep it in good shape. I had a Heart Interface Inverter/Charger set up too, and that worked well, except the batteries didn't seem to like it very much.

I now have a good 3-bank charging system From Xantrex Truecharge 40 and it's worked beautifully. The payback of getting a good system, is the fact that the batteries will last a lot longer.


This is what I'm running now and I really like the brand, and would recommend it to anyone (sold at West Marine, and other outlets).

Here's the scoop:

For boats with large battery banks, the Truecharge 20 and 40 pack more features than any other comparable chargers and supports multiple battery types. The TC-20 is intended for boats with up to two 4D or 8D batteries, while the TC-40 will work well on boats with 4 or 8D batteries or multiples in parallel. Both are bulkhead-mount and intended for permanent installations with hard-wired connections. In addition to the basic Truecharge features, these more powerful chargers include: Three position selector switch for AGM, gel or flooded batteries. Three position temp switch (Hot/Warm/Cold), Optional external temperature/voltage sensor for precise voltage control. LED bar graph shows current output plus "Fully Charged" LED. Automatic 21-day refresh timer runs the batteries though all 3 stages for peak state of charge. Equalization stage allows you to reduce sulfating of battery plates, equalize specific gravity between cells & charge battery to highest capacity. Ignition Protection (Meets FCC Class A & UL standards 1236M, 458, 1564).
Number of Outputs: 3
Automatic Functions: 21-Day refresh timer
User Selectable Functions: Temp. compensation, battery type, equalization
Status Indicators: LED
Temp Compensation: Manual or Automatic
Input Wiring: AC Hardwire
Output Wiring: 3 output terminals
Safety Features: Including reverse polarity protection, AC circuit fuses, over-temperature shutdown, short-circuit protection
Waterproof: No
Mounting Hardware: Cabling required
Remote Available: Yes (see models 333438 & 333446)
Approvals: FCC, UL
Warranty: One Year
Optional remote panels display charge current, battery voltage to 0.3 volts and charge state on small LED bar graphs
Optional Battery Temperature Sensor (see model 333420)
TC-20 & TC-40 dimensions: 15" x 6" x 2.25"

This is a beautifully functioning piece of equipment, and I have had zero problems with it, and have not changed one battey in what seems like three years. I need to check the fluid level again, but this system will NOT boil out fluid and it does a superb job keeping batteries hot and ready.

regards, Paul

I painted the interior of my electrical closet white so I could see in there better, and installed a bright light too. Then I put a shelf along the backside where the fiberglass hump extends through the closet, using it for the base of the shelf.

I put another shelf perpendicular to the side of the hull and I keep certain tools and cans of oil, etc. in there very neatly. I trimmed the edge of the shelf with mahogany, because I was so tired of looking into a ratty hole, now it looks ship-shape, with a nice looking charger and inverter wired in out of the way. I even took the covers off the electrical boxes and wire brushed them down and put on a coat of gray paint, they look new.

The closet is now wired up like the under-hood of an automobile, with wire ties, etc. It not only gets all the wires out of the way, it's a safety feature, it's organized so I can actually use the space (I kept the floor open so I could store a variety of stuff in there if I wanted to, with hooks for spare lines, etc., and it will help the resale of the boat someday when someone else looks in there and gets a real big boost of confidence buying an old Chris. We don't want to talk about that sort of thing in the middle of a project, but it is a consideration at some point.

If you want me to help assign projects for you, let me know. I can also tell you what color to paint your living room at home, where to go on vacation, where to invest your money, etc. if you need help, ha ha.

Hey, better get working on that teak!

All razzing aside, the restoration of one of these boats is not an easy thing, but it sure is fun and the results of that work will be there for everyone to see, including you. The really good news is, the Commander is a great solid boat to restore, and they still look good with any company too.

With all of the new tupperware being sold these days, the classic lines of a Commander just look all that much better.

Regards, Paul

Good points Paul.

Say, where is your electrical closet? Any chance you could post a picture of it?

This boat appears to have been totally rewired for who knows what reasons. It has a Square-D circuit breaker box located under the kitchen counter adjacent to the stove/oven. Not the easiest place to get at, but I guess it is not too bad. If I decide to start totally over, I will relocate it. I was thinking about putting it in the galley wall that houses the 12v fuse panels -- there is a nice space below all the 12v stuff that has nothing obstructing it, and that area would be very easy to run wires into from below.

Anyway, I'm interested to know where your 120v panel is located.

Best wishes....

When I enter the interior cabin, the electrical closet is on my immediate right and the galley is on my left.

Check out the Master Index, here, and you'll see a link to painting of the electrical boxes, etc., showing what my electrical closet on the 38 Commander looks like.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/503931/thread/1149538278/last-1149538278

Paul

Great info on the charger -- those Xantrex units are top-drawer stuff. I went with a unit that has many of the same features but is a less-prestigious unit. It has a three stage smart charger and a desulfication cycle that runs for 15 minutes every 3 days.

Maybe we'll save our pennies up for a Xantrex after we get most of the other problems squared away.

I did buy a Xantrex Link 20 two-battery bank monitor that will be nice. Expensive little unit!

Curt....

I just saw this thread, surfing through all of the files, and I have the same charger on my boat. I can't agree with you more, this is a very very good unit, and I have not had to replace a battery since I started using it. I highly recommend this unit to anyone.

Ernie

I have the old ferro-resonant kind, and they are either "on" or "off" and they boil batteries. I have had to add a LOT of water each season tring to save the batteries, with moderate success. I'd like to see one of these in a box under the tree with my name on it!

Dave

I still absolutely LOVE the Xantrex Truecharge 40 I installed on our 38' Commander several years ago. It has done a fantastic job and it has paid for itself very quickly too, by keeping batteries in tip top shape. It runs through a cycle to avoid sulfation, and I can testify enthusiastically, "This thing WORKS".

The Xantrex was too big for our runabout, so I looked around for a small one, because I got real tired lifting a heavy automotive battery charger into and out of the boat each trip we took. Naturally, I want hot batteries when we leave the docks, and I think I found a nice solution.

I picked up one of the ProSport 12 (by ProMariner) units at West Marine, they cost $130 and feature a dual bank system, with an computerized regime to charge and condition batteries without ever overcharging. The other think cool about this unit, if you have dual batteries like I do on the 20' Skiff, and you just run on one during your outing, when you plug in the charger it recognizes one battery may need a little attention and it gives it say 10 amps of charging, while the other one gets only 2 amps or so. Very nice, compact small, and I mounted it under the passenger seat out of sight and hard wired to the batteries.

This is an all sealed unit, with no cooling fan like the big Xantrex Truecharge, but that unit does the heavy lifting with a lot of batteries and NEEDS the cooling fan after a run if we are tapping into the inverter. The small unit is sealed tight, but it has a temperature control system and it will fully charge in 8 to 10 hours. This is perfect for the runabout type use we'll be putting it to. Now that automotive unit will be parked permanently in the shop!

They also have a nice sealed flip top charging outlet, and I may install one of those if I can find an appropriate place. That way I won't even have to lift the seat to plug in the unit.

Naturally I rely on the alternator, but there is no need to go to the water with a boat that has anything but two HOT batteries. This seems to be just the ticket. I'll report on how it works as I get some hours on it.

Regards,

Paul


Here is some more info on the unit:





All the amperage your batteries can use!ProSport Generation 2 On-Board Marine Battery Chargers rise to the next level of performance. New features include: three built in performance charge profiles that can be digitally selected with color coded programming caps, allowing the ProSport to be simply reprogrammed in the event batteries on board are changed to a different type. Rugged 100% Waterproof and Shockproof design with advanced electronics in heavy duty compact, lightweight case. ProSport s Sequential Multi Stage Charging keeps batteries charged, conditioned and maintained with a precision Flooded/AGM Battery performance charge profile that s friendly to your batteries while extending their life. Maintenance Mode is safe for short or long term storage. Fast 8-10 hour recharge times with Distributed-On-Demand charging technology ensures 100% of the available charging amps are fully utilized Waterproof, shock resistant and saltwater tested for coastal sport-fishing and boating Lead Acid/Gel Battery

Here is the installed product, shown mounted underneath the passenger seat on our 1966 fiberglass Sea Skiff. It's small, totally sealed, not even an open vent anywhere. It does get a little warm so I mounted it a quarter inch off the plywood seat structure and it has performed perfectly.



Based on a half season of use, this thing is quite acceptable. The Truecharge we have on board TRADITION ( 38' Commander Express ) is more suitable to charging a battery bank, and more suited for use on board a cruiser. This particular unit seems to be well suited for the needs of an open runabout. We're running dual batteries on board the runabout for safety and to assure we always have a hot battery on board.

Since this photo was taken, I have installed a plug port, so the wiring is cleaned up and all I need to do is just flip off the cover and plug in the system from outside the seat enclosure. I don't even need to tilt the seat up any more. Slick, and the price is acceptable too, for what it does, and also due to the fact that this is a new and in-the-box unit directly from the manufacturer with directions, specs, warranty, etc.

For a cruiser the Truecharge Xantrex is still the best multi bank charger available for the money. It's big, does a lot more, and it must NOT be mounted in a wet area. The Xantrex unit will make your battries last so long it will literally pay for itself, due to the cycles it runs through automatically, but is it a lot more expensive unit than the ProSport. Anyone else have a unit they've purchased and like? If so, post the info here for others to see!

Regards,

Paul

I don't know if this has been posted before or not, but I found this good info with some specs, on the very unit you were describing.

http://www.sterling-power.com/products-chargers-prosport.htm

Best,

Tom

Well Tom, I learned something today!

thanks!

James

http://www.sterling-power.com/products-gold-fuses.htm

.., soldier!
Just makes me feel warm & fuzzy watching things done rite onboard a CC.
Pls dont stop; otherwise, mite not make it thru another Coast Guard inspection.
Cheers!
Eric

I painted the closet white so I could see better, and installed two shelfs which have a lot of utility.

I've been looking at this photo and wondering just what kind of an electrical light show would happen if one of the many hoses or gaskets in the engine room happened to do what hoses and gaskets do from time to time (they leak and squirt water).

Firing the motors at the dock while hooked to shore power, which we all do from time to time, could be an exciting event with this installation. Personally, I wouldn't do this, and personally, I believe the USCG would write this up as an improper installation, but that's just my opinion at this point. Personally, I would think a battery charger should be in the electrical closet (for more than one reason).

Just a thought for the day.

Paul

I don't believe that is a very good installation, water can get to the electrics while under way and if the gen set is being used to backcharge house batteries, for instance, then you can cause a fire. If the battery charger is wetted down while under way, then you can cause a fire when you hook to shore power. That device belongs in the electrical closet.

Ernie

personally I think that is a potentially dangerous installation, not just from what has already been mentiioned, but from an electocution point of view too, being in the engine compartment and working around things that can and do get wet.

BRayson

There are (at least) four sections in the ABYC regs that would appear to give a concern, including the definition of "dry" area, ambient temp, distance above bilge water, protection from falling objects and dripping from above, and manual disconnect.

My personal preference for battery chargers would be in a well ventilated electrical closet, next to all of the other fuses, dicsonnects and 120-v electrical equipment. That's where mine is, and I feel a LOT better about having it there than I would if it were in the engine compartment. In addition, I am not sure the ones with the automatic cooling fans are even ignition protected, so beware.

regards,

Paul